Community FM Efford

[Hunin]

With the release of Kegety's SFS mod that includes a dump command to extract enpacked files we are now in the position to modify CloD.
Even better (or worse ): none of the game data is decrypted.
To make this crystal clear:

Anybody with notepad can now edit the whole range of vital components, including flight models.

I sure hope steam's anti-cheat routines are as good as or better than CRT2 was back in the old engine.

However there's also a tremendous chance here.
Looking at the teething problems the game has at the moment and the very involved and admirable way Luthier responds to community requests and criticism, I ask myself wether we could take all the creative energy and extensive resources a dedicated and caring community can muster and channel them into actively helping the developement process.

With the FM files openly accessible to everyone, why not try to steer the testing and constructive criticism towards actual changes in a community made beta efford.
We know that the developement team is under tremendous pressure at the moment.
Let's get all interested hands and get them dirty for the benefit of the sim.
A Spitfire Mk I with CSP has transformed from a request to a feasible possibility for example.
Puting it into the game would both satisfy the demand of the community and lifting the workload of a frankly guite minor task of the devs.
If it adheres to the high standards it may be incorporated officialy.

I'm well aware that the release of the mod tools was not wished for or done by Maddox Games.
Either way this is a forced revelation of their hard work and I understand if the thought of an involuntary public beta process comes close to feel insulting after so many years of development.
However the state of affairs does remind me of some early statements made by Oleg about a moddable game that is customizable by the end user with an in-house quality control and the possibility of officializing community content.

My point is simple.
Everybody and their mother can and will modify the game to their liking soon.
We might as well try to benefit from it.

PS
Hoping for some clarification from the officials here.
What's the stance on this latest episode of the CloD rollercoaster?

[robtek]

Yeah, just what the developer needs, a bunch of bloody amateurs fiddling with the code.
I am shure that your idea is well intended, but you know what they say: well intended is bad done.
I am strongly opposed to that, and if everybody can modify this program uncontrolled i see a very dark future.

[Viper2000]

Originally Posted by Hunin

With the release of Kegety's SFS mod that includes a dump command to extract enpacked files we are now in the position to modify CloD.
Even better (or worse ): none of the game data is decrypted.

Flight test work would be greatly assisted if the atmosphere profile could be published for the various maps so that we can try to find the closest approximation of standard day conditions for testing, and also so that we can can attempt to accurately correct results back to standard conditions.

(Of course, a 100% standard day map would really be wonderful, but I don't want to advocate illegal modification of the software)

I also hope that the anti-cheat protection is bullet-proof, because I really would hate to see this sim killed by cheats, especially at such an early stage in its development life...

[Hunin]

Originally Posted by Viper2000

Flight test work would be greatly assisted if the atmosphere profile could be published for the various maps so that we can try to find the closest approximation of standard day conditions for testing, and also so that we can can attempt to accurately correct results back to standard conditions.

(Of course, a 100% standard day map would really be wonderful, but I don't want to advocate illegal modification of the software)

I also hope that the anti-cheat protection is bullet-proof, because I really would hate to see this sim killed by cheats, especially at such an early stage in its development life...

Had a quick look and only found the standard load.ini values that were allready used in the old Il-2.
It can be found in \$bob\maps\English_Channel_1940 if you want to have a look.
Here is the relevant passage:

[WORLDPOS]
CAMOUFLAGE SUMMER

YEAR 1940
MONTH 7
DAY 15
; position of London
LATITUDE 51.5
LONGITUDE 0

PRESSURE 745
TEMPERATURE 17

Great thread btw. - didn't see it before.

@robtek
As I mentioned twice the damage is allready done.
This is about reacting to the situation.

[robtek]

Ok, hunin, you're right, the damage is done.
Imho a very shortsighted help by kegetys and maybe a longtime damage.
I shure hope not and i also hope that MG has the capabilities to close those files again for good.
The only way to change anything should go through published SDK's in a controlled way.
Otherwise, i dont believe that there are bad apples around, i know it!

[Viper2000]

That's very interesting. I can see the temperature being 17ºC, but the Pressure figure is a bit of a mystery, since it seems that the sea level pressure is about 996 or 997 mb (found by taking a Spitfire down to sea level and changing the pressure setting to zero the altimeter).

I suppose that it could be 745 mm Hg; that would be about 993 mb. So I'm still a bit confused. Of course, this assumes g = 9.80665 which is the standard value for 45º latitude.

Converting up to g = 9.812 (which is the figure Wikipedia lists for London) isn't much help.

However, if we take g to be 10 instead of 9.80665 then 745 mm Hg converts to 101283 Pa, almost the standard sea level value of 101325 Pa. But this is probably coincidence, given the 996 mb reading...

[Sven]

On one side it is good that the community can access it, so there are no secrets. Modifying FMs by the community however is not good. At least it is no good in online gameplay. There is already a ton of information send to the developers regarding certain flaws in the FM/DM. And I suggest everybody to do so, but do make it constructive and make sure you back up your claims, we're aiming for historical accuracy after all.

In the best case we don't need any mod or mods, but there is also a limit to the devs capabilities in providing us with continuous support, they have more plans for the future than just the BoB I've read
It is too early to say we need mods for FM/DM, give it a month or 2.

I also hope that the anti-cheat protection is bullet-proof, because I really would hate to see this sim killed by cheats, especially at such an early stage in its development life...

That protection better be good, or it is IL2 all over again.

[Kurfürst]

Good idea. Pandora is out of the box, but she might help us to identify and FM problems easier. Saves a lot of time and guesswork..

The Devs are busy making the engine work anyway.

[Peril]

Yes no one will ever agree on which performance test to base a build, but if this can be used to correct obvious errors it has to be a good thing.

I have been turned off IL2 in the past mainly because of the poor implementation of FM accuracy, it's not hard to pick holes but some holes were pretty big to be honest. I have a huge amount of data here that has already been sifted, picked, typos found (yes core data has errors) tested in Targetware, complained about and finally implemented. People like me with experience and the data to help do exists just in the past it's all been taboo.

As the FM Guru for Target Rabaul, this has my interest as a viable option ONCE the bugs are sorted. The only thing I seek is the ability to help if I can and a PACIFIC theatre to play in

The latter is my passion

Originally Posted by Hunin

With the release of Kegety's SFS mod that includes a dump command to extract enpacked files we are now in the position to modify CloD.
Even better (or worse ): none of the game data is decrypted.
To make this crystal clear:

Anybody with notepad can now edit the whole range of vital components, including flight models.

I sure hope steam's anti-cheat routines are as good as or better than CRT2 was back in the old engine.

However there's also a tremendous chance here.
Looking at the teething problems the game has at the moment and the very involved and admirable way Luthier responds to community requests and criticism, I ask myself wether we could take all the creative energy and extensive resources a dedicated and caring community can muster and channel them into actively helping the developement process.

With the FM files openly accessible to everyone, why not try to steer the testing and constructive criticism towards actual changes in a community made beta efford.
We know that the developement team is under tremendous pressure at the moment.
Let's get all interested hands and get them dirty for the benefit of the sim.
A Spitfire Mk I with CSP has transformed from a request to a feasible possibility for example.
Puting it into the game would both satisfy the demand of the community and lifting the workload of a frankly guite minor task of the devs.
If it adheres to the high standards it may be incorporated officialy.

I'm well aware that the release of the mod tools was not wished for or done by Maddox Games.
Either way this is a forced revelation of their hard work and I understand if the thought of an involuntary public beta process comes close to feel insulting after so many years of development.
However the state of affairs does remind me of some early statements made by Oleg about a moddable game that is customizable by the end user with an in-house quality control and the possibility of officializing community content.

My point is simple.
Everybody and their mother can and will modify the game to their liking soon.
We might as well try to benefit from it.

PS
Hoping for some clarification from the officials here.
What's the stance on this latest episode of the CloD rollercoaster?

Still it is better to discuss it here and hope that the devs will make a good decision for the sake of historical accuracy than to have these mod sects that destroy the community which is already quite limited.