LIBIA italy question? or europe question?

[el0375]

either way i don't like international bullism

if im right it was also the 8th anniversary to iraqi fooensive/invasion

[bf-110]

Originally Posted by el0375

either way i don't like international bullism

if im right it was also the 8th anniversary to iraqi fooensive/invasion

Same.Still not sure if the protests agains Khadafi were triggered by US or by the Spring of Arab Nations.

But I'm (and a good part of the world) pretty sure that this will be another Iraq/Afghanistan.

About Italy,my aunt is saying things are getting even worse there with the waves of lybians coming.

And germans are fed up with war.

[Avala]

Originally Posted by Xilon_x

this situation not regard only ITALY but regard ALL EUROPE i am agree FRANCE and U.K. U.S. helping but GERMANY not collaboration.WHY?

Because they are smarter?

Thats mig23.

[el0375]

it seems that some will never learn form history

a friend of mine told me one day that in teh wikileaks there were some papers saying that they americans expected/knowed( or something like that) that all this will start, even the month!
libya was a noissance from them as it compromised their plans for the n. Africa( if they have plans, and i suspect that they might)so tehy wanted to kick him out now in any means, as the ''popular insurgence'' failed they had to do something: a no-fly zone(= attack them directly according to UN( who are the permanent members btw? ) and some countries)
sorry maybe what i say is not so right, its night and i m tired, i will be able later on to write better and br more organised.

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Xilon_x

LIBIAN PILOTS ABORT RAID TO BENGASI AND RFUGE TO MALTA.

1. Stop posting in all caps, especially when you are wrong. Those jets defected weeks ago/last month, look at the video date. Its old news.

Infact this whole thread is rediculous...

edit- btw the reason I opened this thread is because the title spelled "Libya", as Libia which is lol worthy.
edit2 - its even more funny because of the op screaming headlines in caps as breaking news, when the news is weeks or more old (other than the shot down Libyan AF fighter which is obviously Libyan because the UK/France are deploying Typhoons (EuroFighter/Raphael) mainly as far as I have seen, although it could of been a UAE plane but I doubt it). Even more amusing is that now everyone in the thread is mispelling Libya, I think for that alone this thread deserves incineration for some type of internet cognitive impairment virus...

[Blackdog_kt]

If they really stick to providing the kind of assistance it was asked of them by the local population (ie, a no fly zone without any foreign troops on the ground) without making a mess of "collateral damage" (let's be honest and call it for what it is, dead civilians), then i guess it would be ok. But that's a big if.

In any case, the hypocrisy in the situation is very obvious: all the EU countries waited until the last batch of Lybian oil they had bought was shipped to them before they kicked off their operation. Our own prime minister comes from a party that had close ties to many Arab regimes (dating from a time that it wasn't really "agreeable" for many western countries to do so) and he still went ahead and granted access to the EU aircraft operating there, just like Sarkozy and Berlusconi were shaking Gaddafi's hand a few months ago but now want him gone...it's madness
Plus, i don't see anyone instituting any kind of international control zones in pro-western dictatorships like Bahrain, where mercenary police kills between 10 and 50 people every other day or so.

I'm very ambivalent about this. On one hand it's still a question of "what serves me right" that's presented as a freedom promoting operation through warfare. On the other one, at least this coalition had an invitation to operate there, a UN resolution to that effect and the reserved but still telling backing of the Arab league, which is much more than can be said for operations like Iraq. I just hope the locals can seize the situation and take matters into their own hands without the need for another prolonged war, which would be detrimental to everyone at this point in time.

[Heliocon]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

If they really stick to providing the kind of assistance it was asked of them by the local population (ie, a no fly zone without any foreign troops on the ground) without making a mess of "collateral damage" (let's be honest and call it for what it is, dead civilians), then i guess it would be ok. But that's a big if.

In any case, the hypocrisy in the situation is very obvious: all the EU countries waited until the last batch of Lybian oil they had bought was shipped to them before they kicked off their operation. Our own prime minister comes from a party that had close ties to many Arab regimes (dating from a time that it wasn't really "agreeable" for many western countries to do so) and he still went ahead and granted access to the EU aircraft operating there, just like Sarkozy and Berlusconi were shaking Gaddafi's hand a few months ago but now want him gone...it's madness
Plus, i don't see anyone instituting any kind of international control zones in pro-western dictatorships like Bahrain, where mercenary police kills between 10 and 50 people every other day or so.

I'm very ambivalent about this. On one hand it's still a question of "what serves me right" that's presented as a freedom promoting operation through warfare. On the other one, at least this coalition had an invitation to operate there, a UN resolution to that effect and the reserved but still telling backing of the Arab league, which is much more than can be said for operations like Iraq. I just hope the locals can seize the situation and take matters into their own hands without the need for another prolonged war, which would be detrimental to everyone at this point in time.

This would of been long over if a week or two ago NATO had hit Libyan armour then before they organised and grabbed the oilports and their fuel for the vehicles. After that initial rebel push and then retreat which resulted in the loss of the oil ports, all we have seen is a relentless push towards Benghazi, it may be too little to late at this point since pro Ghadaffi troops are already fighting the rebels in the city and we are just preventing mechanised convoys / supplies reinforcements. Although it looks like France and the UK will step up their help for the rebels, US doesnt want to get dragged in though.

edit- apparently the jet was a rebel jet they sent up to try and intercept incoming bombers (according to CNN).

[Jaws2002]

Is pretty clear that many of you never been on the receiving end of ruthless dictators, or are too ingnorant to find out how it is.

I grew up in Romania during Ceausescu's regim (a good friend of Gadaffi) and i know all too well what those poor Libyans are going through.
I'm pissed the western powers let the mad man kill so many people and went in so late.
If this bombing they did untill now took place two weeks ago, that mad dog would be hanging in tree by now. They let him choke that country in blood.

Obama is the biggest pussy that ran USA. It took the coward three weeks since the start of the killings to make a bloody statement.
I see a lot of mention about former wars US was involved in. This is very different situation. This was a genuine revolution against a dictator, not the retarded intervention in Iraq.
Do you guys even read statements made by FREE Libyans? The whole country is against this mad dog. People are just too afraid to go out and show it.
I hope someone has some sense and they start going after the single target that can stop the blood shed: Gadaffi!!! You won't stop the killings if you shoot some troops that are kept in check by gunpoint by gadaffi's cronies.
You kill Gadafi, or at least show that you are seriously going after him and the war will be over in two days.


I see all this comanders and political leaders on the news saying that Gadaffi is not targeted. Are this guys retarded? Is this the message you want to send to this dog? They should remember him every day that "we are coming for you and we'll have you hanging at the end of a rope like Sadam. Maybe he'll be scared and run in exile.

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

Is pretty clear that many of you never been on the receiving end of ruthless dictators, or are too ingnorant to find out how it is.

I grew up in Romania during Ceausescu's regim (a good friend of Gadaffi) and i know all too well what those poor Libyans are going through.
I'm pissed the western powers let the mad man kill so many people and went in so late.
If this bombing they did untill now took place two weeks ago, that mad dog would be hanging in tree by now. They let him choke that country in blood.

Obama is the biggest pussy that ran USA. It took the coward three weeks since the start of the killings to make a bloody statement.
I see a lot of mention about former wars US was involved in. This is very different situation. This was a genuine revolution against a dictator, not the retarded intervention in Iraq.
Do you guys even read statements made by FREE Libyans? The whole country is against this mad dog. People are just too afraid to go out and show it.
I hope someone has some sense and they start going after the single target that can stop the blood shed: Gadaffi!!! You won't stop the killings if you shoot some troops that are kept in check by gunpoint by gadaffi's cronies.
You kill Gadafi, or at least show that you are seriously going after him and the war will be over in two days.


I see all this comanders and political leaders on the news saying that Gadaffi is not targeted. Are this guys retarded? Is this the message you want to send to this dog? They should remember him every day that "we are coming for you and we'll have you hanging at the end of a rope like Sadam. Maybe he'll be scared and run in exile.

Why do you speak so about Obama and the US. It is common knowledge that the Middle East, Eastern Europe, Western Europe, etc. think America is the great oppressor, yet they all want America to police the world.

Recently a radical from Croatia killed two American servicemen in Germany. Why? American soliders died in Croatia trying to stop the genocide and killing of the Croatian Muslims by the Serbian oppressors.

The news media turns things to suit their agenda, the radicals turn things to suit their agenda, and the poor people are misinformed and manipulated to think in those terms.

You know as well as I, no one respects America before or after trying to help. Everyone thinks America always has profit motive. Yet, Americans are burying their sons. Where are all the profits, when does that happen? What is the payback for the dead soldiers and billions of dollars spent to help ungrateful countries? More contempt and hatred of America and an empty wallet

The enemy is the same..radical jihadists.

The difference is most of Libya oil production is going to Western European countries. Western European countries will be forced to acquire more of their oil from Russia. It is not about freedom, it is promoted that way by the media. The Libyans will be just as oppressed by the Jihadists as they have been by Gadahfi. Sorry, it won't be any better. There will be no rule of "We the People" if Gadahfi is out of power. It will be organized radical jihadists who have planned and promoted the insurgency that take the role of oppressing the libyans.

YET, no one is thinking why the jihadists are pushing so hard to take Libya. After they took Egypt... they only got a broke country with no money or resources to promote their agenda. Now that is different with Libya. If the jihadists can get their hooks into a money tree like Libya and dedicate the resources to jihad just think of the havoc they can cause.

America should have stayed out of the Libyan conflict 100% and let the Western European countries with everything to lose see what they can do about Libya.

We will have to wait and see, but you can trust Americans will be hated regardless of the outcome. A new Jihadist Libyan government will pull their factions together to affirm their power and be more oppressive of the Libyan people than Gadahfi.

Sadly, it just looks like more of the same for the people of Libya.

Don't get me wrong... I'd love to be wrong and look forward to a democratic government ruled by "we the people".

[Jaws2002]

I'm not bashing the Americans. I'm pissed with the gutless persident.
That is not a position for an undecided academic. The president of United States has to be a man of action and a man that has an opinion, not someone that is waiting for the reaction of others, to make up his mind how to act.
I absolutely agree with you that something a lot more dangerous CAN come out of a Libya without Gadaffi.
But the question here is who you stand for. Thugs, dictators that are pretending they like you, or the people?
I'd say the people of Libya have the right to decide their fate, the regime is just too strong and too ruthless and they can't do it alone.
I can tell you that a lot of Libyans now LOVE the western powers that came to help them. It wasn't Iran that came to their aid. This alone can prevent the jihadists from taking power in Libya if Gadafi falls.