Don't you feel ripped off as a console gamer?

[Houndstone Hawk]

To Phlux:

Unlike the other guy in the thread, you actually had bothered to atleast read the post & so you have my respect, along with my apologies if i appeared 'eletist' or over intillegent to a 'dumb down console crowd'. I meant to appear as neither & on the contrary, I have huge respect for the console owners like myself that will undoubtedly be "disappointed" once again.

We have great machines, very powerful, keyboard ready & flightstick compatible units with tons of memory & acres of HDD space; it's not far removed from a pc yet the games (not the players) are dumbed down at sometimes nearly twice the cost. True; I expected IL-2 because I bothered to read everything about this game from its conception.

As for my job, I was merely responding to a sarcastic comment made by Mr Big himself.

[PantherAttack2]

You need to keep in mind that Birds of Prey isn't just a port of IL-2 Sturmovik: 1946, it's an entirely new game. It tries to appeal to the majority of console gamers who don't want to bother with a simulator and just want to shoot stuff (generalization). I will admit they could have put in a mission editor, but I'm still having a great time playing it even without one.

BoP is lacking in many aspects compared to IL-2 1946, but it has made great improvements over other console combat flight games.

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite

Battlestations isn't a flight game, it's a strategy game that as a bonus also lets you take direct control.

Do I feel ripped off? Not at all.
There's more involved in bring a console game out, part of which is better quality control than most pc games. Still bugs surely, but a much better experience than pc gaming. With pc gaming you spend a lot more on hardware that I have little use for other than gaming. With console gaming you spend less on hardware but more on games. But then there are used games and gamefly, so it's not like I pay $50-60 very often.

Keep in mind some of us game on both, it isn't necessary to be a "pc gamer" or "console gamer".

So, there's more involved in releasing one third of a combat flight sim game on a console to, say, ARMAII?

So basically, we're enjoying better visuals but going vastly backwards as content goes.

Better Quality Control??? BOP???? Umm, very confused as this surely has to be one of the top 3 biggest bugbears of the title, unless ofcourse you refer to the console as a whole in which case I would agree!!!

[phlux]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

To Phlux:

Unlike the other guy in the thread, you actually had bothered to atleast read the post & so you have my respect, along with my apologies if i appeared 'eletist' or over intillegent to a 'dumb down console crowd'. I meant to appear as neither & on the contrary, I have huge respect for the console owners like myself that will undoubtedly be "disappointed" once again.

We have great machines, very powerful, keyboard ready & flightstick compatible units with tons of memory & acres of HDD space; it's not far removed from a pc yet the games (not the players) are dumbed down at sometimes nearly twice the cost. True; I expected IL-2 because I bothered to read everything about this game from its conception.

As for my job, I was merely responding to a sarcastic comment made by Mr Big himself.

Fair enough.

However sir, I must say that since the game has been out (in some places) for a month now, anyone left posting on this forum would obviously be enjoying it despite it's few shortcomings. I'm certain you knew the reaction you'd get, and the first few sentences of your opening post confirm it. I'm just curious as to your motivation for starting this discussion.

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by phlux

Fair enough.

However sir, I must say that since the game has been out (in some places) for a month now, anyone left posting on this forum would obviously be enjoying it despite it's few shortcomings. I'm certain you knew the reaction you'd get, and the first few sentences of your opening post confirm it. I'm just curious as to your motivation for starting this discussion.

Did I not make that clear? Garbage DLC over fixes & the off-topic release of OFP: Dragon Rising, which will disappoint thousands more console owners that deserve to enjoy what their PC brethren receive.

Respect for the great sig btw!!!!

[PantherAttack2]

As far as the DLC is concerned, it's sort of silly to have people flying pre-order content planes and have nobody else be able to fly them at all. Now, yes they did make more single missions, but other than that the content was already there. Fixes are on the way anyways.

[phlux]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

Did I not make that clear? Garbage DLC over fixes & the off-topic release of OFP: Dragon Rising, which will disappoint thousands more console owners that deserve to enjoy what their PC brethren receive.

Respect for the great sig btw!!!!

Your opinion is crystal clear; your reasoning for posting it on a forum full of people who are enjoying what they bought is what's rather confusing to me. I have a hard time believing that your intentions were to champion the cause of the beleaguered console gamer, but nonetheless enjoy the remainder of the responses you get.

I can't take credit for the signature (read the fine print), but thank you anyway.

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by phlux

Your opinion is crystal clear; your reasoning for posting it on a forum full of people who are enjoying what they bought is what's rather confusing to me. I have a hard time believing that your intentions were to champion the cause of the beleaguered console gamer, but nonetheless enjoy the remainder of the responses you get.

I can't take credit for the signature (read the fine print), but thank you anyway.

Hmm. A very suspicious & cynical mind you appear to have Mr Phlux as I wish neither to be a champion to anyone or to wallow in satisfaction at stirring up a hornets nest. I am merely a punter that's sick to death of being penalized for having a console. Admittedly, I am a lover of combat sims & yes; Falcon 4.0 was a little gem & then some. Ppl are no doubt getting enjoyment from this stuff & hey that's good. I was prepared to stay in the sunset on this but the fact I have pre-ordered another dud on PS3 (OFPR) & having read this Anton guys' reasoning for the chargeable DLC (it was already part of the title), I felt like expressing my opinion & asking others if they felt as I did.
I strangely feel as I'm having to justify my actions to you, in a forum of open debate & healthy discussion.
Pointless either way. You will go on & enjoy this game for what it is, good for you; I will not, I'm the loser I guess for buying it (twice) in the 1st place.

Yes I read the small print but still thought it worthy of praise.

[Axe99]

Hey Houndstone, you raise two issues:

1) content in original game

The important thing to keep in mind here is that the devs want to take this game beyond the PC crowd that have migrated to console, but still keep the simmers happy (which I'm _very_ happy about )). If they go in too hardcore in their first outing, it's likely to come up in reviews, which will turn off buyers. If this is successful (and the signs are looking pretty good so far), then it's laying the groundwork for sim-style flyers on console - but the groundwork has to be laid down first. Driving games didn't start with GT5 and the driving force pro, they started with very basic wheels and much simpler handling models. Similarly, console flight games will need to do the same, or it'll be too much for flyers who haven't got a PC background. I personaly think they've done
a masterful job of balancing the arcade and the sim crowd, and hope that IL-2 as a console franchise goes from strength to strength, encouraging other more simmy games on our black/grey boxes .

2) value for DLC.


The content in the original game was _brilliant_ value - 70+ missions, often quite involved, 30+ planes (they don't get the full 40 from me, as some are plain impractical to unlock)), multiplayer and painted pictures of all the pilots ). So it's not as if anyone was ripped off here. If you don't like it, buy any other console flight game in the last decade and you'll see that you're not getting a rough run. The DLC itself is a further two planes and six missions, all with the new plane (really looking forward to getting my teeth into the P-47 - on PS3, so haven't seen these yet) - the asking price for this is also very reasonable. Both took work, and I think it's only fair the devs get paid for the work they do . It's not as if we're spending $5 for anime skins for our planes .

[Raw Kryptonite]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

So, there's more involved in releasing one third of a combat flight sim game on a console to, say, ARMAII?

So basically, we're enjoying better visuals but going vastly backwards as content goes.

Better Quality Control??? BOP???? Umm, very confused as this surely has to be one of the top 3 biggest bugbears of the title, unless ofcourse you refer to the console as a whole in which case I would agree!!!

ArmA2? I guess there is more involved since they have yet to find a publisher that thinks they can pull it off.
At least ArmA2 doesn't suffer from any bugs though, like you pointed out.


The patch 1.03 will solve and improve/balance the following in-game issues:
Major

• AI tweaking and balancing (especially AI infantry aural detection sensitivity lowered significantly)
• Improved multiplayer and cooperative campaign (saving games, connection issues)
• Numerous fixes and improvements in the Harvest Red campaign

Engine:

• New: Functions getPosATL and setPosATL to allow controlling position relative to terrain.
• New: command line option -showScriptErrors introduced to show errors in scripts on-screen
• New: Direct analogue throttle and brake for airplanes now available.
• New: More flexible configuration of Flares in the config (brightness, size)
• New: Mission name (with * indicated unsaved work) displayed in the mission editor
• New: Keyboard shortcuts in the mission editor
• Improved: Better airplane HUD visibility both night and day
• Optimization: Reduced frame stutter near map borders.
• Fixed: Rainbow could be visible even with sun below horizon.
• Fixed: 3D Editor - civilian and resistance units did not work correctly
• Fixed: Sea surface was not rendered in NE area out of map.
• Fixed: Terrain surface was sometimes using wrong parallax map.
• Fixed: Grenade could sometimes destroy a building just by impact
• Fixed: Radio messages sometimes echoed
• Fixed: Team switch did not work when player died
• Fixed: Reduced AI detecting slowly moving enemy vehicles by ear.
• Fixed: Prevent killed AI units reporting who killed them.
• Fixed: After respawn in MP, player's tasks, diary content and skills are transferred to the new entity
• Fixed: Leaning 'limits' did not work with TrackIR
• Fixed: MP client frozen in Receiving... screen sometimes
• Fixed: Problems with saving and loading games in cooperative campaign

Missions:

• Fixes and improvements in most of the campaign missions (Into the Storm, Harvest Red, Bitter Chill, Manhattan, Badlands, Dogs of War)
• Improved: autosave logic to not save when it was not safe
• Improved: Eye for an Eye in Scenarios

Data:

• Fixed: various minor problems on buildings
• Fixed: rocks destruction effect changed
• Fixed: penetrability of some vegetation
• Fixed: collision geometry of A_BuildingWIP
• Fixed: react FSM core conversations
• Fixed: cargo animations in LAV25
• Fixed: indicators in Ka52 when using NVG
• Fixed: cargo animations in BTR
• Fixed: Warfare keypoint on Chernarus

The patch 1.04 will mainly solve and improve/balance the following in-game issues:
Major

• Mouse controls: Improved mouse handling and responsivness
• Stability: Fixed CTD caused by Voice Over Net when many players were speaking simultaneously and other stability problems
• Sound: Fixed speed of sound simulation and other improvements
• Multiplayer: fixed scoring, multiple mission parameters added and various other MP-related improvements

Engine:

• New: Added mouse smoothing to game options.
• New: Enabled multiple parameters for MP missions.
• New: Mouse filtering strenght adjustable using mouseSmoothing=NNNN in user config.
• New: Command line argument -cpuCount=NNN to override cpu count detection.
• Improved: Mouse smoothing disabled for fast movement.
• Improved: Mouse smoothing can be disabled in user profile file using line mouseSmoothing=0;
• Improved: Audio volume settings.
• Fixed: Soldier were walking on non-existant heaps of debris from destroyed buildings.
• Fixed: Autocoordination caused rudder oscillation in high speed flight.
• Fixed: Crashes in VoN when many players were speaking simultaneously.
• Fixed: Immortal freezed soldiers occured in MP.
• Fixed: Broken kill scoring in MP (two points for unit kill).
• Fixed: Input key actions are no longer active while chat mode.
• Fixed: Diag_log used with long text argument caused crash.
• Fixed: Mouse scrolling in diary.
• Fixed: Enemy kills made by player using stolen enemy vehicle are no longer considered as friendly kills.
• Fixed: Switching to Utes from Chernarus caused Utes to contain infinite landscape.
• Fixed: Time of day synchronized on client after connection to server.
• Fixed: Speed of sound simulation.
• Fixed: Fire from rifle distort sound.
• Fixed: Crash by malformed input to a diag_log scripting function.
• Fixed: Dark muzzle flash in some of the weapon optics.
• Fixed: MP: Ships and boats used excessive bandwidth and CPU power.
• Fixed: Players are no longer forced to reconnect after MP Load on server.
• Fixed: Bike rider can be no longer healed.
• Fixed: Sometimes crew of a near vehicle was visible through the vehicle.

Missions:

• Improved: Communication menu updated to work with the new menu systems.
• Fixed: Some persistent RE calls added for better JIP compatibility in campaign.
• Fixed: Music was sometimes not playing properly due to faulty playMusic RE command call.
• Fixed: Scene area cleared from exploding destroyed vehicles during various scenes.
• Fixed: Possible appearance of immortal non-player characters in campaign.
• Fixed: (First to Fight) MP: Logos shown on client every time after JIP.
• Fixed: (First to Fight) MP: Skeet shooting not working for clients after JIP.
• Fixed: (First to Fight) Players not boarded in the chopper if they got in the towing tractor.
• Fixed: (Into the Storm) MP: Bad position of client players during converation.
• Fixed: (Into the Storm) Some voice-subtitles difference in the first dialog.
• Fixed: (Into the Storm) MP: No callsign for HQ entity on clients.
• Fixed: (One Week Later) MP: Clients not sitting on bikes after leaving the AAV.
• Fixed: (One Week Later) MP: Player is no longer the co-pilot in the Osprey.
• Fixed: (Manhattan) Escort chopper often shot down.
• Fixed: (Manhattan) Palyer stuck in the animation after first scene.
• Fixed: (Badlands) Prizrak no longer initiates conversation if Cooper is in a vehicle.
• Fixed: (Badlands) Non-fucntional ending in campaign scenario.
• Fixed: (Missing in Action) Redundant random sentences from Razor.

Modules:

• Improved: Ambient Civilians module caused lag in MP due to window lights.
• Fixed: Undefined variables in Ambient Civilians module.
• Fixed: High Command could behave strange when someone added his own display event handler.
• Fixed: Wrong positions of objects/logics.
• Fixed: Performance problems related to Animals module in MP.

Data:

• Improved: Some of the vehicle HUDs now contain missing info.
• Fixed: Alignment issues on several wrapper UI screens.

Enjoy!