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IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

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  #21  
Old 09-30-2009, 05:34 PM
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mazex mazex is offline
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Originally Posted by JZG_Pedro View Post
Damn man! Congrats!! G940 must be just awesome!!

Im a RL pilot too, and it's interesting cuz heavier and less self-centering pedals are all I want! Don't you dislike the excessive self-centerig of PC pedals (compared to RL flying) ? I fly small, old single-engined trainers (getting my CPL now), and the rudder reacts in a much heavier and "looser" way..
Well, I have to agree with Thunderbolt here. It's really only when doing a Hammerhead that the rudder pedals loose their self centering effect from my experiences, otherwise the air pressure will push them back.

Most WW II birds have the rudder "overhang" present on many modern aerobatic planes with large rudders to make rudder control less self centering so I guess they had a rather hard "self centering" effect (look at the 109 for example).

Then I agree that they often require a lot more pressure than PC-peripherals!

/Mazex
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  #22  
Old 10-01-2009, 01:42 AM
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Sokol1 Sokol1 is offline
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...especially as it uses expensive Hall sensors and no potentiometers as many of the others use.
The myth that HALL sensor are expensive is due replacement ones sold for HOTAS Cougar, borrowed from automotive industry.

Actually HALL sensors is cheap than good potentiometers.

Type of sensor used in Saitek X-52 cost around 2.00U$ each (X and Y axis).
Type of sensor use in Thrustmaster T.16000M cost around 3.00U$.
Probably are triaxial Melexis sensors, and probably the same is used in G940.
http://www.melexis.com/Sensor_ICs_Ha...90333_648.aspx

Potentiometers (CTS?) used in CH sticks are sold, as spare part at 9,95 U$.

Some purists will say that good pots are as good (or better?) as Hall sensor, but fortunately to us, the joystick manufactures are using XXI century technology, since no one manufacturer in China will use 9,95 U$ pots... Fact!

Some guys stay one steep ahead in sensors use, they are using MaRS (magnetoresistor):
http://www.gametrix.ru/products/category/1

Sokol1
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  #23  
Old 10-01-2009, 02:32 AM
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Sokol1 Sokol1 is offline
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My test is to move in a small circle in one of the quadrants of the joystick, kind of a circle in the circle. With the G940 I can do really small sub-circles with no spikes at all...
You can use JoyTester2 and post results for us?

http://www.wikifortio.com/830786/JoyTester2.zip

For test make a spiral with stick. If possible with MS FF2 too.

Sample using CH Fighterstick:



Sokol1
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  #24  
Old 10-01-2009, 05:20 PM
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mazex mazex is offline
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Originally Posted by Sokol1 View Post
You can use JoyTester2 and post results for us?

http://www.wikifortio.com/830786/JoyTester2.zip

For test make a spiral with stick. If possible with MS FF2 too.

Sample using CH Fighterstick:



Sokol1
He he, I think it was more of my "artistick" skill that was the limit with the G940 The MSFFB2 feels good too, but the lines go more "jagged". Not that it was bad in any way but the G940 definately felt "sharper"...

First the G940:




And the MSFFB2:




Not a big differnence, more like art
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  #25  
Old 10-01-2009, 09:44 PM
zaelu zaelu is offline
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Two things I don't think I will like at this Logitech (I didn't put my hands on one but a good friend has one for more than a week and told me how it is)

1. The trimmers are analogues... Why not made of wood? What's wrong with digital? What's wrong with a mouse scroll? You have a fine axis with good increments and a quick reset to origin at the ready. There are a lot of digital knobs out there... why not use them? Why not put a stupid chip to even connect the trimmers to the force feedback and actually move the control column via force feedback front-backwards or left-right?

Oh... i see... some have a fetish for the infinite adjusting "powers" of an analogue axis... well... Any analogue axis has no more than 256 values (more than enough actually) cause that's how Direct input is designed. And also, direct input limits the number of axis per controller to 8... which causes the problems in X52 cases and Cougar (both that i own).

The greatest fact is that all analog potentiometers gets crappy by time and reliability would be a good reason to switch to digital... like the main axis...

2. The trimmers have no central point or the central point is very unclear.

Otherwise, my friend told me that the new Logitech is in another league when it comes to quality of materials and execution. I had an X52 and now I use an X52 Pro and I can tell if X52 was smelling a bit of a let down in quality of materials used... X52 pro looks like a cheap copy.

Maybe i will buy a Logitech... but only if they fix the trimmers... at least make them have a central point more clear.
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  #26  
Old 10-01-2009, 11:33 PM
ECV56_Guevara ECV56_Guevara is offline
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Originally Posted by zaelu View Post
.

2. The trimmers have no central point or the central point is very unclear.
Maybe i will buy a Logitech... but only if they fix the trimmers... at least make them have a central point more clear.
I totally agree. I´m at the same point, detent points in the trims are a "must" An the g940 doesn´t have a protection for the bomb´s buttoms, that s a pity. Call me an excentric but i love this feature in my old X45. Lot of times it save my mission.
By the way, Mazex, thanks for the info!!!!
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  #27  
Old 10-18-2009, 12:30 PM
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DD_crash DD_crash is offline
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Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha View Post
Not sure the differences are that subtle in IL21946 to make any comparisons but across different sims maybe its modelled to have a different feel on the stick between cables and hydro electro systems, I think the biggest asset of FFB sticks has always been the ability to feel stalls coming on and catch them before hand, at this point for me FFB is very important.
How strong are the FFB effects in Il-2? I keep missing clues as to an approaching stall/spin and feel that it will help me fly better IF they are strong enough. I tried a Saitek Cyborg and even at 100% on the set up screen they felt weak in the game. Is there any utility to increase the amount over 100%?
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  #28  
Old 10-18-2009, 03:10 PM
nearmiss nearmiss is offline
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Am not going to wet my pants over this one. I've got a recently purchased new Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse that cost $120+ and it doesn't work. I remember trying to remove logitech mouse drivers from my system and couldn't get an answer from LT and finally just left them on the system. I would be very suspicious of Logitech support. I don't mean now when they first introduce the product. I mean after the stick has had all it's initial marketing hype exhausted.

One biggy sales point for LT is the forcefeedback. I used A MSFT FF2 stick for ages and it was the best. My only complaint was the stick bouncing around took me off targets often, a real help to my enemies online. Got my chops busted regularly until I eliminated the FF from the guns, as best I recall. The FF did add to the immersive feel of the sim, but the buttkicker does as well. I always laughed about going on line getting my buttkicked.

It is great you are excited about your purchase, but the proof will be in the service you get. My CH hotas is going strong. I just added a MFP to it and plan to order an additional set of keys and face plate next week.

The CHproducts is a winner (but NOT forcefeedback). Rugged equipment and terrific software. The CH forums has some very sharp people responding to support issues and they take care of business.

I don't think of CHproducts as the big gun by any means because they are a bit backwards... marketing wise. The equipment has a few L.E.D. lights, but they are very understated. So, from a gamer viewpoint they don't add to the excitement of the game. It's just that the CH hotas does the job expected everytime.

CHproducts are a true value for the money, because the quality is commercial grade. They make a large array of commercial joysticks and controllers for industry. I think it is probably a miracle they are still messing with gamers. We are a royal pain in the wazoo for the most part, demanding support.

I'm not knocking your product purchase. I'm just saying all that glitters may not be gold, but it will be tested within the next year. So, making an expensive purchase like this should be planned to make a best decision. I bought my CHProducts setup a piece at a time, there was no mystic after the first purchase I knew exactly what I was getting with each new item purchased. I have never regretted a single CHProduct purchase, so far.

One problem we all have is wanting to do things better, it goes with the game and the things we use to do the game. Yet, we must use our intelligence to know that our expectations cannot necessarily be fixed by something new that is presented as the "Hotas Holy Grail".

Go for it if you are convinced, but don't overlook other proven choices is my point.

Last edited by nearmiss; 10-18-2009 at 04:05 PM.
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  #29  
Old 10-18-2009, 09:29 PM
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mazex mazex is offline
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Originally Posted by nearmiss View Post
The CHproducts is a winner (but NOT forcefeedback). Rugged equipment and terrific software. The CH forums has some very sharp people responding to support issues and they take care of business.
Bought my first CH Stick for my trusty old 386DX-16 in 1989 for playing "Their Finest Hour", "Red Baron", "Fighter Bomber" and other high fidelity PC sims so I sure know how to appreciate CH stuff... Had two CH sticks during the years but both have been worn out, as opposed to my MSFFB2...

As I'm off topic now thinking about the old games I played on the PC back then, I found this site while writing this post with abandonware (download the open source app dosbox to be able to run them on a modern PC - http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1):

http://www.xtcabandonware.com/index....85&type=Flight

Just downloaded and played F29 Retaliator that was the first PC flight "simulator" that I played on multiplayer in 1991 - on a serial cable. Damn it was fun. It has no FM or realism at all, but the missions where real fun on multiplayer. A simple idea that is great for two player multi:

You started in the air and both got the same target "Tank in E5" or something. You then got point for killing that target. If you focused on shooting down the other player you got no points, but you only had 5 planes to you could win on points after some time period or "elimination" after the 5 planes where out. Wery much like your every day IL2 server running GC2 The fun (and non realistic) part was that both had the same target... Could be fun for IL2 too actually.

Played some SWOTL too while writing this - amazing that I thought it was so beautiful

Back to waiting for news then...

Edit: Found Aces over Europe that is one of the games I've spent most time with in those days as abandonware too:

http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/15...er+Europe.html

Works great in dosbox. Gotta go back for some channel fighting!

/Mazex

Last edited by mazex; 10-18-2009 at 10:04 PM. Reason: AOE!
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  #30  
Old 10-24-2009, 07:07 AM
Waldo.Pepper Waldo.Pepper is offline
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I'm sold. I'm getting this after these favorable comments I think. Thanks.
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