Ju 87 Stuka's

[acred99]

Ju 87B2 Stuka 7.StG77 F1+SM Sebastoplo Jun 1942
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[cheruskerarmin]

Hi acred99,

just in case you like to make your skins fairly historical here are some facts for you:

- The I./StG3 (former I./StG76) consisted of StabI./StG3,1./StG3, 2./StG3 and 3./StG3.
The assigned codes were S1+?B-H-K-L, (?= individual a/c letter) not S7(wrong profile)! Squadroncolours were white, red and yellow. These appeared on the spinner tipp and the individual a/c letter. The latter was painted on the fuselage and on the upperwings too, between the balkencross and the wingtipp. Many but not all wingsunder letters were painted in the squadroncolour too at this period.
All three squadrons had a squadronbadge, a white forward marching lion in a black shield on a disc background in squadroncolour.
- all balkan campaign stukas were painted yellow on their tail rudders, including the horizontal ones (completely upper).
Original pics with missing markings or emblems are showing
individual replacement aircraft with incomplete paintwork, oftenly due to lack of time for paintworks in the field. These were exceptions, not the rule.


- The extraordinary yellow eastern front tailband displayed on S1+AH was an individual/personal feature as well as the unusual dark a/c letter with white outline. The latter should have been simply white. The blue emblem shield without a disc background is very unusual too. Do you have an original photograph of this a/c? I would like to see this very much but anyway i can say a conclusion there were all a/c of this squadron painted this way is wrong. I know a wrongly recoloured image of several aircraft in flight. I suspect the profile is simply completely wrong - as unfortunately many of such.

- The yellow underwings on your R2 trop of 1./StG3 MTO were a eastern front marking introduced in june 1941 with the start of operation barbarossa. It appears together with a white MTO theatreband here. This could have been the case if an aircraft switched units from the eastern front theatre to the MTO by still retaining the 'old' campaign markings. While the unit only served in the MTO from 1941 to 1943 it is quite unlikely all a/c of a squadron had yellow underwings at any time. If the profile isn't simply wrong it shows an individual aircraft feature.

Yellow undercowlings on stukas weren't standard but a rare exception too.
Being a skinner (good old Il-2 Sturmovik 1946) myself: check the opacitiy/saturation of your right fuse balkencross, the white tailband is shining through.

- It is generally wrong to conclude all stukas in the desert were painted completely
in desert colours. In contrast to widespread believe the opposite is true, they were all
delivered in the standard RLM70/71/65 ETO factory splinter scheme and if there was
any repainting in the field then it was an individual one. Well examples are the early desert stukas of II./StG2 or 3./StG1. Some patterns/blotches of desert colours (at first Italian gallico mimetico, later when available RLM 79). were simply
painted over the splinter scheme to achieve a better camouflage. The dark colours of the
RLM70/71 faded rapidly under desert war conditions, therefore original pics are
often misjudged here. There isn’t a single proof until today any batch of stukas was delivered completely painted in RLM 79 or repainted completely so in the field.
This applies to all stukas in the MTO until the end of 1943.
Are you sure with the completely black spinner of A5+MK? The profile is bad, the
Individual a/c letter is black instead of red. In my opinion the spinner should have been either painted in desert colour or/and with a red tipp. You are relying too much on a single (bad) profile.

- the profile of A5+AH, which was the squadronleader’s aircraft of 1./StG1, is much
better, even if it displays the RLM splinter colours not correctly. The location in lybia
must be corrected to Bir Dufan.

- From 1940 onwards the wing upper a/c letters were placed to the outside of the wings upper crosses, meaning between the crosses and the wing tipps.
The norway campaign started in april 1940, check the wrong time period of Paul Hozzel’s aircraft. The fuselage markings are clearly indicating 1940.

The diving raven emblem of I./StG1 was outlined in squadroncolour during 1939 and 1940.

- Your skin of FT+AR is wrong, it must be F1+AM – like you did well on the rest of
the squadron. A good example how original pics are the better way to go –
no white spinner tipp at the period. Many profiles are wrong here.
The location must be corrected to Sebastopol or Sewastopol.
A complete Staffel or Squadron of Luftwaffe stukas usually consisted of twelve aircraft. Individual aircraft letters therefore were ranging up to L,M,N or P.
In exceptional cases up to Z. Such an exception isn’t known from III./StG77 in
1941.
Servicable strength was oftenly below twelve aircraft, there were always
some in repair or replacements to wait for.

Hope this helps – a general advice from me: Never rely on a single source
alone – there are many wrong ones. This applies especially on profiles and recoloured images!
Always go for original pics. There are many well Luftwaffe forums in the web
to get free help from. Asisbiz is a good source for original pics – the pic comments
are oftenly wrong as well as the unit histories. They are taken oftenly from doubtful sources like Mr. Holm’s ww2.dk which unfortunately is full of errors.

This all is only important if you like to call your skins historical…
If not, just forget it all…

All the best

[LcSummers]

Originally Posted by acred99

Hi Mate8
I was going to do them when I get back. I kinda do one group at a time.
The harder camo's I leave to later as they can take me a day just to get one skin.
I'm off early morning and will just finish off a few more.
Anyway I'll give you one now!!

Hi Matthew,

thank you so much. The entire Staffel. Great work.

Thank you for your hard work

S!

[acred99]

Hi cheruskerarmin
Thank you so much for your valuable comments.
Can you please email me direct so I can begin to correct the skins.
It will make it much easier to fix things.
Matthew
mla_asisbiz.com


"Hope this helps – a general advice from me: Never rely on a single source
alone – there are many wrong ones. This applies especially on profiles and recoloured images!
Always go for original pics. There are many well Luftwaffe forums in the web
to get free help from. Asisbiz is a good source for original pics – the pic comments
are oftenly wrong as well as the unit histories. They are taken oftenly from doubtful sources like Mr. Holm’s ww2.dk which unfortunately is full of errors."

I'm not sure if you realise I am the owner and editor of www.asisbiz.com. The information from my site does have some information from Mr. Holm’s ww2.dk site but has been enhanced with additional information and images.
If there are any errors they are from publications which I grant you do have errors. If you know of any errors please report them so they can be fixed. I do have several Luftwaffe experts who go over things including many veterans who send in photo's etc. I am aware of profiles having errors and do try to correct them when I notice it. When I'm skinning I do try to use photo's where possible but sad to say they don't have many good Ju 87 photo's.
But I'm really glad you went to such an effort and I'm most interested in correcting the skins to make them historically correct.
Also if you know of any photo errors or comments which are wrong pls email me so I can correct things.
Looking forward to working with you soon.
Matthew

[jamesdietz]

Horrido!

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by jamesdietz

Horrido!

Just 'Horrid' will do fine thanks. It's the best fighter in the game. And it carries bombs.

Amazing machine. Do you know that it can even outrun a 100oct Hurricane on the flat at 50m, then once it's got enough distance it can pirouette within it's own wingspan, turn the tables and shoot you down?

Now there's historical accuracy.

[Continu0]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

Just 'Horrid' will do fine thanks. It's the best fighter in the game. And it carries bombs.

Amazing machine. Do you know that it can even outrun a 100oct Hurricane on the flat at 50m, then once it's got enough distance it can pirouette within it's own wingspan, turn the tables and shoot you down?

Now there's historical accuracy.

yep, that bug has been reported...

(it actually really is a bug as offline and online - FM seems to be a different one...)

[acred99]

Hi Guys had to make changes on the skins due to an emblem error facing the wrong way.
Have re uploaded the corrected skins.


Hi Guys
Junkers Ju 87B-1 4 Staffel Störkampfgruppe Luftflotte 4 (M9+YA) Nikolayev Ukraine 12 July 1942
Have updated my Ju 87 section still have a lot todo but getting some new skins up.
1 x Skin http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ju-87B/St...ppe-Lfl.4.html
17 x Skins http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ju-87B/TrG186.html
3x Skins http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ju-87B/Junkers-Ju-87B.html
Matthew
Too many skins had to split these up so did them by Gruppe
120+ skins here :-
http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ju-87B/StG77.1.html
http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ju-87B/StG77.2.html
http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ju-87B/StG77.3.html

[acred99]

Hi Guys
Done another bunch of skins
20+ skins http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ju-87B/StG77-Stab.html
I have spent a lot of time redoing the unit emblems which can take hours.
Most of the emblems in print don't match the photo emblems including the Black Pig emblem of 1./StG77 some where brown but I don't believe they where pink as so often shown.
Also spent a lot of time getting the aircraft warning signs done and retyped so when you zoom in you can see the detail. The emblems are fairly sharp as you will see when you play them.
I'm still working on this whole section and have removed all the Ju 87B IL2 skins and have only focused on the CLOD skins.
I'll fix the table and comments later but enjoy what's up.
I'll try to finish this section before moving to another type.
Matthew

[acred99]

Hi Guys
12+ skins here:
http://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Ju-87B/StG51.html
Matthew