Turret Gunner Controls

[winny]

Originally Posted by MadBlaster

I hope you mean for motor driven only.

Sort of.. If CoD wanted to model hand moved MG's realistically then weight and momentum would come into it. So if you move the gun rapidly then it would go slightly further than you intended because of the momentum, G would also come into it especially for the smaller planes.

I don't think there's a way to do it 100% accurately because it would probably end up with it feeling unresponsive and fuzzy.

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by winny

Sort of.. If CoD wanted to model hand moved MG's realistically then weight and momentum would come into it. So if you move the gun rapidly then it would go slightly further than you intended because of the momentum, G would also come into it especially for the smaller planes.

I don't think there's a way to do it 100% accurately because it would probably end up with it feeling unresponsive and fuzzy.

Yes, adding momentum and Gs would probably be trying to take the realism too far.

[41Sqn_Banks]

I may be wrong but my impression is that the horizontal movement of "large" turrets in Il2:1946 is already slowed down a bit and sluggish (e.g. A-20G and B-25J). I didn't check it specifically... though.

[MadBlaster]

I guess they would have to know the weight of the gun and its platform type. Then model the motion of that relative to what the plane is doing G wise. Actually, it would probably be easier to shoot that way. It would add some smoothness to your shot I think. As it is now, you grab the mouse and make a bunch of little hand/finger movements to get your shot dialed in. It's a jerky type movement. Very easy to go over/under where you need to be and not natural. It should be smooth and fast, maybe like (lol) Call of Duty when your walking/running.

Maybe the only hydro/electric turret in the list of CoD flyables is the Blenheim under the nose?

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

If you didn't want to use the joystick for the gunner, there could be an option to use a mouse directed turret. So you would move a small mouse curser to where you want the turret to move to and the actual gun would lag behind and fire at the correct speed for that aircraft. I understand the OP's point, It is rather unrealistic to have huge motorised turrets that you can move around like you're firing a pistol.

Exactly. It's not a question of interfacing, it's a question of how fast a human being can rotate a 15kg machine gun and at what angular velocity the mechanically driven turrets operated historically.

I don't care if it's mouse or joystick, the problem lies in the fact that the gun feels completely weightless.

As for balancing reality with gameplay, hopefully we'll get some competent AI that can be ordered to do a few things, instead of doing what the IL2 gunners do: wait until the bandit fills you full of holes, then sniper-kill him with a single shot.

The gunners are not meant to shoot down planes (although it's desirable), but to damage and deter them from pushing the attack.
In that sense, having the ability to give certain commands to the gunners would take away the need for us to fly the aircraft with one hand on the stick and shoot the defensive guns with the other on the mouse.

Imagine this menu in the radio/commands interface, you press tab, then the number corresponding to gunners. Then you get the following commands, some with extra sub-menus:
1) Range submenu: Fire at close/medium/short range
2) Firing Mode submenu: Fire for effect (barrage fire to deter attackers) or fire aimed shots (to actually score hits)
3) Closure rate submenu: Prioritize incoming targets, targets who are moving away or don't prioritize at all
4) Fire at will (cancels all previous modes)
5) Hold fire (puts the gunners on "pause" without canceling previous modes)
6) Resume fire (gunners start firing again according to their previous commands)

It might look complicated, but it's very versatile. You are on a low level Blenheim raid and you see 109s up high but they haven't seen you. A lonely, unarmed Fieseler Storch passes by, what happens?
In IL2, your gunners will fire and give your position away. With this system you issue a hold fire command.
Before you reach the French coast, you already have your gunners set-up to ensure maximum defence with the least amount of exposure, by issuing the orders to fire for effect at close range on incoming targets. So, when the Storch is away again, issue the resume fire command and they keep doing that.

If a bunch of 109s see you and are out to attack you, the gunners will fire when they need to, but they won't give your position away for miles with their tracers.

Different scenario now. You are flying a high altitude raid with lots of bombers and you're streaming contrails, so everybody knows you're there anyway. You set them up for barrage fire at long range to make sure the interceptors don't get close.
Another one, you are in a fight flying a 110. In this case you want the gunner to be somewhat accurate, since you are in an aircraft that maneuvers anyway (as opposed to a straight and level bomber group) and if an enemy is onto you he'll probably be right on top of you at minimal range. So, you tell him to fire aimed shots at incoming targets.

[robtek]

Originally Posted by Wutz

What ever you say.....another armchair specialist, you have just been added to the ignore list.

It takes one to know one!

[whatnot]

Originally Posted by Wutz

What ever you say.....another armchair specialist, you have just been added to the ignore list.

That's quite an ingore list you got going there Wutz!

[whatnot]

A system that works pretty well in my experience is something like in World of Tanks: You can look around as quickly as your mouse allows (your head turning around in the turret) and then the turret follows your eyes with the speed that particular turret can.

[Wutz]

Oh there are eight candidates that are in that club.
But back to the topic, when thinking of the twin 20mm flak guns used during my military service those could swing around really fast, that is why I would like to see hard evidence that turrets where slow or laggy, and not just some fighter jocks wet dream to easy successes.

[GnigruH]

There are videos on YouTube showing for example b-17 where you can see how fast the turrets were.
Like this one (from 0:17 to 0:29).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pe36UMRkRbk