4.11 - AI debugging

[D-XXI]

I can confirm the observations from Lagarto and Mundschenk.

[JtD]

I hope you guys are aware that this is like v1.0 behavior, not a new bug with v4.11.

[Lagarto]

Yes, we are perfectly aware that it's an old bug. The 4.11 was released almost a year ago, so why don't we discuss AI debugging in general?

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

Here's another example of odd behaviour by AI. I've just flown a DGen mission, in which my squadron was supposed to escort transport planes on a transfer flight to a new airfield. It was a fairly short hop, some 10 minutes flying time, all the escorts still full of fuel and ammo. As it happened, we got intercepted over the new airfield. All the friendly a/c were by that time in landing circuit - and they continued to circle and land, just as the interceptors kept on shooting them down. No defensive action whatsoever, just the usual, cool talking to the control tower. Fighting all alone, I tried to call for help. Nothing. I requested assistance from the ground, only to learn that friendly fighters were far away - while they were buzzing all around me.
The problem is - once the AI enter circuit, they won't fight any more.
I know that someone else may call it a feature. The AI dudes could have a bad day, temporary blindness, air sickness, suicidal thoughts, hangover or they were just plain dumb. But maybe, just maybe, it's a bug and need fixing?

Indeed. Once the AI enter into the landing circuit they stay there. I created a mission a while back where you attacked an airfield and the aircraft were landing... I fully expected them to break the landing pattern and go after me but it was a turkey shoot instead.

For whatever reason, they were programmed to ignore everything while on landing pattern. It could use improvement. No question about it...

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by JtD

I hope you guys are aware that this is like v1.0 behavior, not a new bug with v4.11.

That is definitely true. This stretches waaaay back

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

The problem is - once the AI enter circuit, they won't fight any more.
I know that someone else may call it a feature. The AI dudes could have a bad day, temporary blindness, air sickness, suicidal thoughts, hangover or they were just plain dumb. But maybe, just maybe, it's a bug and need fixing?

I already addressed this so fix is ready for 4.12. But while we are at it what would be desired AI behavior in this situation. Currently, I have them stay in landing pattern unless they are directly attacked.

[Lagarto]

The escorts should defend their charges, not only themselves.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by FC99

I already addressed this so fix is ready for 4.12. But while we are at it what would be desired AI behavior in this situation. Currently, I have them stay in landing pattern unless they are directly attacked.

Very cool FC99. Raises a question: Does only the attacked plane take defensive action or does the wingman/pair begin to engage? Assuming already in the pattern for landing.

[Asheshouse]

In the context of carriers being the home airfield, an example from real life.

Battle of Midway, 6th June 1942. From the Action Report by the Commander of Yorktown.

At about 1359, while fueling the fighters which had turned on board, Radar detected and enemy attack group coming in from a bearing about 250° true, distance 46 miles. These planes had apparently come in at a low altitude and when first detected by Radar were observed to be climbing. Radio Electrician V.M. Bennett, USN, Radar Operator, estimated that there were between 30 and 40 planes in the attack group.
As soon as the enemy attack group was detected by Radar, the fueling of planes was discontinued and the sixteen VSB planes of Yorktown Attack Group, which were then in the landing circle, were directed to form a combat air patrol in order to clear the landing circle and the general area of own anti-aircraft gun fire. ----- All our fighters in the air were vectored out to intercept the enemy and did intercept at from 15 to 20 miles.

[Mundschenk]

Originally Posted by FC99

I already addressed this so fix is ready for 4.12. But while we are at it what would be desired AI behavior in this situation. Currently, I have them stay in landing pattern unless they are directly attacked.

In my opinion, if one plane flying in the landing circuit is attacked, or even better shortly before it is attacked, all fighters in the circuit should stop circling and engage the attackers. Maybe except those who are already preparing to land.

Gives me another idea: could it be possible to issue a radio command to the own AA protection of the airfield to prevent them from firing? I can't count the times I was shot down by friendly AA guns while closely chasing a fighter over my own airfield...