oleg, you better hurry, RoF is releasing a ww-2 sim next

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

If you look at my early posts at SimHQ, I was very enthusiastic about RoF.

I still am in some ways.

The flight modeling is very good indeed, as are the aircraft models.

However, after flying it for a while now the new has worn off and the problems are becoming very apparent. My most recent posts at SimHQ reflect this experience with the sim.

You can agree with the business model or not, I'm not getting wrapped up in that debate, but no one can tell me that all is well and that the unicorns and rainbows are there for all to see. The rabid fanboism at SimHQ is out of control. If you are an onliner and post about problems with the multiplayer aspects of the sim your comments are brushed off as trivial gamer talk. Only "serious" off line players can have valid observations there it seems.

I want RoF to succeed. It has tremendous potential.

But right now the emperor has no clothes, and the fan boys are blind as a bat.

I will have to read your thoughts on ROF over at the HQ...I had thought that you were very happy with the sim...should be an interesting read

[ElAurens]

SlipBall, many aspects of RoF do make me glad I bought it.

But after seeing aircraft after aircraft crash in to the earth from thousands of feet and bounce or just crumple a bit, I'm becoming less enthusiastic about the DM. Oleg had this pegged in his comments on it. It looks to me like they just applied FPS "rag doll" physics to the crash DM. One of the German squads put together a little vid of various aircraft collisions with ground objects. It's like the planes are made partly of rubber. They flew an Albatross head on into a moving train and it just bounced and bent the fueslage a bit. Rubbish. That aircraft should have been totally destroyed.

And after flying the thing almost nightly since I received my copy I'm simply getting bored. Multiplayer does not exist in any way that those of us who have flown IL2 from the beginning understand. I've never been an offliner, but the RoF "campaign" is dull and lifeless, the only thing good about it is the fact that at least the AI will engage you and they don't have super human powers like Oleg's do.

If online were really an option I would be a lot happier.

neoqb really needs to get off their butts and get this sim brought up to a level where one could realistically call it a finished product.

They don't have a lot of time to do this, at least as far as I'm concerned.

They have the basis of a very good and long lived title here, really they do. But they need to fix it. Yesterday.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by virre89

Says the guy, who don't own the game and seemed to know everything 1 year ahead of everyone..lmao

We where well aware of what we were getting Neoqb haven't fooled anybody on purpose. IL2 consists of many expansions and updates, stop comparing it to RoF it's just ridiculous besides IL2 doesn't really have the proper tools for multiplayer either... it utilize a 3rd party tool for server browsing, something that would leave a lot of players out of the online community.

And IL2 wasn't exactly rich on content at initial release either.

Do you think anyone here is comparing a 9 year old product with RoF? C'mon most of us here were there when the original IL2 was released and that's what's being compared. The only ones mentioning the 'full release' of IL2 (meaning all it's addons) in a comparative way to RoF are the fanbois raving over RoF. Get real. That's not fair to neoQB. It's not fair to fans of both games, and that's not what's being done.


I hope neoQB succeeds and manages to get things working as soon as possible. But not having online code working for a game that was heavily bolstered as an online experience is unfathomable.

It's great the game looks as good as it does, but it's 2009. Would anyone expect less? I'd be dissappointed had the game not looked as brilliant as it does. But as many have mentioned that luster wears off PDQ when you look at how unfinished it is.

Time will tell if this game succeeds. I've been tempted to go to pick up the game at the local MicroCenter, but I've heard enough to confirm my own suspicions that I won't buy it untill neoQB finishes the game.

The tradgedy of all this is that I BELIEVE neoQB is trying, and these issues are a symptom of how difficult it is for new developers (especially of complicated games like Flight Sims) to make and finish a game. Sadly, my fear is they won't be able to.

What they need to do above everything else is get online functioning. Releasng two extra planes to placate supporters is nice, but is not what is necessary to lengthen RoF's shelf life.

[Chivas]

Unfortunately the things we all want can't be created over night. There may be more than a few people putting the game on the backburner, until the first major patch/addon/content.

I must confess I haven't flown the game enough to know the full extent of the existing contant, but what I have flown was entertaining. We just have to get our heads around the fact, that ROF is a WIP, amd most of our concerns will be dealt with if possible over time.

I understand that many don't want to pay even a minimul sum for a WIP, but I would rather do that than have no sim to support.

[ElAurens]

The following screen captures illustrate the problem with the DM of RoF.

This SPAD lawn darted straight into the ground at a speed high enough to tear it's wings off.



This is it bouncing on impact.



And here it is after coming to rest. Not even a dent in the cowling. This aircraft should be a smoking hole in the ground. Note also that there is no hole in the ground, or fire for that matter.

[Robert]

Originally Posted by Chivas

Unfortunately the things we all want can't be created over night. There may be more than a few people putting the game on the backburner, until the first major patch/addon/content.

I must confess I haven't flown the game enough to know the full extent of the existing contant, but what I have flown was entertaining. We just have to get our heads around the fact, that ROF is a WIP, amd most of our concerns will be dealt with if possible over time.

I understand that many don't want to pay even a minimul sum for a WIP, but I would rather do that than have no sim to support.

I can appreciate that sentiment. I've said in a previous post I'd pay $100.00 for SoW. If ROF was similarly finished (based on our expectations and Oleg's notes) I'd pay the same. I hope they can succeed.

TBH. With me, because of health issues and how it's affected my ability to work, $39.00 is a lot to shell out for something like this. I can't afford the risk they may not be around 8 months from now, and I end up with a game with limited appeal.

I'll feel the same way should SoW be released in a like state as RoF.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Robert

I can't afford the risk they may not be around 8 months from now, and I end up with a game with limited appeal.

Actually you would be left with a game that doesn't work at all, thanks to the magnificent online-only DRM scheme

I too want this to succeed, but i won't help make it a success in its current unfinished state and set a bad precedent for what a company can get away with. If Oleg, Eagle Dynamics or any other sim developer released something in that state they would be torn to shreds. The only two reasons people support them is that

a) the dedicated WWI jockey hasn't had a sim with a dedicated, up to date engine for years and they are willing to settle for the bare basics and

b) Neoqb is a small company that clearly stated in their letter to the community "sorry, we ran out of money and it was a choice between releasing an unfinished game or scraping everything"

To give credit where its due, Neoqb has the foundations more or less set right, they appear to be trying hard and recently they also made some effort to keep the community in the loop as far as further development goes, despite being awfully hurt by the language barrier and the lack of an effective PR effort early on.

It's not them i'm worried about, it's the willingness of such a large part of the community to lower their standards and unconditionally support an unfinished product.
It's all fine and dandy for people to like it, it's a matter of personal taste. What's not fine is having a bunch of people telling you your reasons for not liking it are rubbish, the changes you are waiting for before you buy are not going to happen so take it or leave it, you don't have the game so you shouldn't talk about it, and so on. It's just an attitude that culminates to a very simple conclusion "Buy it now or shut up and get out".

It's even got to the point where people like ElAurens who actually bought the game are getting shouted down on the slightest mention of a thing being wrong.

The usual argument behind such tactics is that they support the genre and how they are serious simmers and the rest of us are not as "hardcore" as them. What they fail to see is that what could be a justifiable situation because of Neoqb being a small company, is something that would not be cool at all coming from an established software house. However, the big boys are watching and if an upstart company with a niche-within-a-niche product can get away with that much, they will surely be able to get away with more. Everyone talks about how RoF has a lot of potential. Not enough see a different kind of potential though, the potential to harm the genre in the long run because of setting the bar too low. Setting a precedent on what's acceptable by the masses in terms of content, quality and price is always a dangerous thing. Asking too much and the developers will never be able to satisfy the public, asking too little and the public will never get another worthy product. I would go as far as to say that for me personally, the survival of the flight sim genre as a whole is much more important in the long run than the survival of a single development house. It's not like they'll disappear if they fold, they could work on other projects in a different studio, for example making a WWI add-on on the SoW engine

It's not them that have to disappear, it's the notion that you can sell an open beta for full market price and place a bunch of restrictive design elements on top of it all.

The way i see it, i can keep flying IL2 with the community/unofficial add ons for a couple more years. I certainly won't be bored until Christmas, at which point Neoqb might release a gold version. Imagine that, working MP, a good offline campaign, more AI and flyable aircraft and a different copy protection method for $50. Now we're talking business.

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Actually you would be left with a game that doesn't work at all, thanks to the magnificent online-only DRM scheme

Didn't they say that the DRM would be removed if the company failed?

[Feuerfalke]

I don't know if they really said it, but it has been that way with MANY other games, too, even if the company was still there. After a few years most DRMs are lifted. Some do it earlier (The Unreal-series removed their complete copy protection at max after the 3rd or 4th patch) and some later, but if you get the game for 10 bucks at the value-price, there is not much sense to cause them trouble with DRMs. And let's face it, most DRMs hit the honest customer, not the pirates.

I also got to agree with Chivas in some points.

1st - I agree that their online-gameplay is somewhat limited. But IMHO it would be much better to have at least one or two dedicated servers running, to assist improving the online gameplay and solcing network-issues the same time they provide 24/7 servers for online players. It would also make it more obvious for customers to see neobq is working on improving gameplay and online-features. But maybe they're doing this via their beta-tests, so who knows?
2nd - I agree that supporting them is the best way to ensure they improve. But I'd also like to see some progress in the right direction. It's not like the game has just been released or so, but over quite long periods, there are no news or updates whatsoever. While I still think this is okay for a game that has not officially announced yet, it's a bit different for a game that people already bought and which has to make a name on the market.

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

@ElAurens, you say "But after seeing aircraft after aircraft crash in to the earth from thousands of feet and bounce or just crumple a bit, I'm becoming less enthusiastic about the DM. Oleg had this pegged in his comments on it. It looks to me like they just applied FPS "rag doll" physics to the crash DM."

I actually said this well before Oleg on this very same thread, asked for peoples opinions on it, and not a single person replied. Few days later, Oleg says the same and all his little soldiers are in agreement lmao I am apparently not important enough lol.........Oh well must accept it

That said, there are aspects of the DM that are superb and have never been done before, in any sim. Its not all doom and gloom, even last night I noticed something new......After taking damage from AAA fire, I noticed that sun rays where shining through the holes that had been made onto the lower wing, looks unbelievably cool

Why don't you wait till the first large scale patch before condemning it? All the things you say about Multi-player are true, the campaign sucks as well....But have patience, Padwan