Ethics of pilots fighting for the sides in WWII

[Dietger]

Misconception

Is what you read into a sentence, not meant or writen.
So, some here read things into texts and postings.
I understand, some ppl feel threatened or confused - you hear/understand what you want to. Not, what actually is written.
It may help to stop watching TV and start thinking for yourself ....
(no offense)

As for my question: "What would I've done on their part?" its really not a complicated thing. You dont have to swagger about the topic, just to be (silently) honest to yourself. So, since you then!, know where you stand, you may judge others, measured on what they've done or dont. It also is helpfull, to look at todays pressing matters and our relation and responsibility in this regard. Mostlikely, our forbears thought and felt the same!

Triggaaar, your questions about my intentions are already answered in my previous postings. I think I made myself very clear.

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@swiss (or anyone interested)



<Or, maybe wee should discuss the term "free".>

swiss, yes!
What is freedom for you? And how you think, you keep it?

I for my part believe, the matter is closely related to concepts like: peace , responsibility , honesty


S!

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Splitter

Assuming it is so....what is your answer to the problems?

Splitter

Maybe we should discuss the problem before we try to find a solution.

-Israel is a problem, as this conflict fuels the fundamentalist recruiting efforts.
Finding a solution here is easy, however you can't be sure the results are the ones we hope for.

-The spread of Islam is another problem.
The solution here is even easier, it could mean we give up some fundamental freedom of the western society.
> close the gate for those F***s
> zero tolerance must be counteracted with zero tolerance - i.e. instead of giving them all the times, maybe we should try it the other way around; taking some of their freedoms. [this is what we try in Switzerland]

Back to Afghanistan, even if this country was taliban free, the surrounding countries all full of them.
You want to fight the remaining countries, one by one? Enjoy.

We should rather find a way take them their reason to exist.


BTW: Dietger: I am not going to discuss it, I already wrote there is only a personal definition of freedom, not a universal one.

Originally Posted by EnsignRo

We as a species are hopeless...we will never get along...there will never be peace...and as usual we will destroy everything we touch...
Humans are the worst thing that ever happend to this beautiful planet.

Don't worry about the planet, this piece of rock will be here for eternity, with or without us.

I also think war is a vital part of our evolution, so I don't share this peace, unity, "it's small, small world dadadidada" attitude.

[Triggaaar]

Originally Posted by Theshark888

You have to realize that most of us stand up for our country as much as you do yours.

Actually, I don't stand up for my country as much as you, because I know my country does things it shouldn't. If someone say on a forum that my country shouldn't have gone to war in Iraq the second time, I'll agree with them - the people here didn't want us to go to war, it was done for political reasons (like backing up our allies, not that you appreciate it). Although I'll probably also point out that those countries against going to war, like France and Russia, had motives as equally out of place as ours (oil).

I am in a forum about a WW2 game that I am really looking forward to. Threads will start about ethics in WW2 that eventually get into helicopters killing civi's or illegal wars and torture and I'm just floored.

Don't be. Think of how many non war forum arguements that get out of hand and eventually end with someone being accused of being Hitler. Think how annoying that must be for the Germans and Austrians - but how often do they jump in and complain? If someone brings up the USA and it's not relevant, either ignore it or just say it's irrelevant. I certainly didn't bring it up, I responded to posts from you and Splitter, because you brought the Europeans up, chucking us all into one basket as if we don't see the US as allies. I appreciate that you get frustrated with the criticism the US gets, but as I've told you before, you have to rise above it. Just disagree, but don't become as bad as them by slagging off a whole continent. And also do appreciate that some criticism may be deserved, we don't have to defend everything our countries do.

Originally Posted by EnsignRo

Humans are the worst thing that ever happend to this beautiful planet.

You do realise that no matter what we humans do, this planet will be fine. There are cataclismic events every few million years, ice ages every few thousand. Species were going extinct long before we got here, and it's not like the other species on this planet are more caring than us, or able to live in harmony - they all kill each other too.

[moilami]

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

In general! So you're saying there are some people you hate because of their nationality. My dreams of world peace seem so distant.

Haha, what I was saying I don't even hate (OMG!) Iraqies of Afghan people because of their nationality Would be just too stupid to do.

[ImpalerNL]

Originally Posted by Theshark888

With this type of attitude, why don't you Euro's stop trying to justify the actions of your ancestors by dragging the USA into the conversation all the time. Their is a price for freedom.

Look at the terrible past actions of your own European countries before you try to drag the actions of the USA down to that level. The actions of the US government do not even come close to the atrocities, death, destruction and sheer numbers of killed caused by European countries throughout their history. Unfortunately we were dragged into your dirty business twice in the past century, but at least we were able to stop a third world war. Without the actions of the "terrible" USA you would have all destroyed yourselves (and the world) long ago.

It is because of our money that you are able to sit in relative safety in your homes and even begin to give biased and propaganda opinions about the actions of the USA.

Now that Europe is dragged into Americas dirty business in the middle east, it would be nice if you can stop the chest beating, because the USA isnt in a position to do that.
Welcome into the 21th century.

[Biggs [CV]]

Simply put, its a new world out there. Whatever effects Europe, effects the USA and effects Asia. We all depend on each other. Our economies are much more fragile in the digital age. Chest beating and talking xxxx is simply stupid, if one of us falls we're all in trouble.

[Splitter]

Interesting.

Is this US chest beating or frustration at European pacifism?

It's very clear from the posts that a bunch of people here believe it is never right to fight. Or that one should only fight on their own territory. And that diplomacy works with fanatics.

The world you live in is better than mine. I respect your idealism, please forgive my realism.

I guess this pacifist feeling is left over from fighting two large sale wars in the past century. Neville would be proud. Peace at any cost is noble.

Ok, we get it.

My prediction: When a major terrorist attack occurs in Europe (Spain and England are the most probable targets), the peace protests will break out within 48 hours. Critics will blame the USA for driving the terrorists to their actions.

Oh, we'll sympathize with your plight (been there). Heck, we'll even send aid and help you rebuild. We'll even offer our assistance in going to get the perpetrators or those that enabled them. Britain will be on a war footing, most of the rest of Europe will want to analyze and negotiate. The UN will pass resolutions condemning the terrorists and....nothing.

Splitter

[MrBaato]

Originally Posted by Splitter

My prediction: When a major terrorist attack occurs in Europe (Spain and England are the most probable targets), the peace protests will break out within 48 hours. Critics will blame the USA for driving the terrorists to their actions.

What are you talking about, there have been major terrorist attacks in Spain and England

And who should you be fighting, terrorists are often people living in a western country preparing an attack in their own neighbourhood
You cant stop that bombing afghan caves...

[Splitter]

Originally Posted by MrBaato

What are you talking about, there have been major terrorist attacks in Spain and England

When one incident kills thousands, then we will see what their answer is, I guess, because so far they have done little (though it is important to note that the UK has been the closest ally in the war on terror).

And who should you be fighting, terrorists are often people living in a western country preparing an attack in their own neighbourhood
You cant stop that bombing afghan caves...

Sure you can. That guy plotting in his basement is probably alone, probably unstable, and probably doesn't have access to chemical, biological, or radioactive weapons. Take away his conduit to those resources and the damage he can do is probably limited.

BTW....just how should we go after and find that guy plotting in his basement? Should we do nothing? Is capitulation the answer?

It's easy to criticize, much harder to come up with solutions.

Splitter

[SEE]

But why are people plotting? You can kill individuals, destroy towns anhilate an entire region but defeating an 'idea' is impossible. The state of Israel was borne from 'terrorism' with acts of terrorism plotted and carried out not least against the British Army. 'Terrorism' is a tactical strategy to a political end. Israeli, IRA, Basque separists, French Resistance, Al-Quaeda, Taliban, etc use subversive tacitcs that we brand as 'terrorism' and essentially for the same reasons.
The West should and must do more to give Palestine its freedom and, make no mistake, the Taliban will be offered some political control over Afghanistan. It is already recognised that we cannot defeat them militarily but to continue the hostility and try to force them into the political arena.