Friday 2010-06-17 Dev. update and Discussion Thread

[philip.ed]

Haha, needed that mate

I'll do it this afternoon!

[lbuchele]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I have to laugh.

ROF doesn't even get crashes modeled correctly, in the least.

And now with neoqb being forced out in favor of takeover by 777 Studios, I believe that ROF is in it's last days.

It´s just your own opinion.
To me, the crashes are accurate enough for a light wooden and canvas aircraft.
I don´t expect that such aircraft explode in a million of parts crashing and the photos I have seen shows more intact aircraft
( if it doesn´t catch fire,of course ) after crashes that more modern, metal built aircraft.
ROF is in good hands with 777 studios.

[Grey]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I have to laugh.

ROF doesn't even get crashes modeled correctly, in the least.

And now with neoqb being forced out in favor of takeover by 777 Studios, I believe that ROF is in it's last days.

I agree! And the machine-gun shot cannot bend a wooden longeron.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by lbuchele

It´s just your own opinion.
To me, the crashes are accurate enough for a light wooden and canvas aircraft.

not really, in most crashes there is just a very simplified "canned" damage model implemented that doesnt take the actual physical forces into account working on the airframe.

a good example of this is flying an aircraft from 4000 m altitude straight into the ground at maximum speed (or plummeting to earth after having its wings shot off at that same altitude). in RoF the aircraft will hit the ground, bounce a couple of times, and come to rest with a wing or few other things broken. it looks no different then an aircraft that crashed from 20 meters, yet it should completely disintegrate with its engine half buried into the ground when it plunges down from 4000 meters at full speed.

Originally Posted by lbuchele

I don´t expect that such aircraft explode in a million of parts crashing and the photos I have seen shows more intact aircraft
( if it doesn´t catch fire,of course ) after crashes that more modern, metal built aircraft.
ROF is in good hands with 777 studios.

many historical pictures from crashed aircraft in ww-1 with the aircraft being fairly intact would have been lower speed crashes and from lower altitudes, there are plenty of pictures showing disintegrated aircraft when the crash was more severe.

other then a low speed crash in RoF, crashes and physical forces working on the aircraft frame are fairly poorly modeled. enough for some eye candy, just not very realistic

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by addman

Here are a few questions that aren't related to what type of grass will be present or what brand of cigarettes that the pilots will be smoking whilst waiting for the perfectly modeled air alarm to go off. Please bare (?) in mind that I haven't read every single SoW article/interview allthough I have followed the Il-2 series since Oleg and team did updates on that non-ubi forum back in 2000.

1. Will there be some kind of RPG elements (no, not leveling up or anything like that), like fatigue, injuries, morale for your pilot(s)?

2. Can you re-arm/fuel during missions?

3. Will you be able to fly the same plane from mission to mission, absorbing damage, get killmarks, repair etc?

4. Is there any form of strategic elements incorporated, like if I bomb a certain factory it won't be able to continue production.

I have a feeling that these questions won't be answered because most of above mentioned features won't be in the final product. It's not a deal breaker but for me realism is just as important as having fun

some of those things oleg has commented on in the past, iirc ....

Originally Posted by addman

1. Will there be some kind of RPG elements (no, not leveling up or anything like that), like fatigue, injuries, morale for your pilot(s)?

pilot fatigue, and pilot "experience" will be modeled (one squad will have pilots of different skill level for ex)

Originally Posted by addman

2. Can you re-arm/fuel during missions?

yes, after repeated requests over the years this has now been implemented. hopefully also this will include some minor repairs to (no specific info on that yet afaik)

Originally Posted by addman

3. Will you be able to fly the same plane from mission to mission, absorbing damage, get killmarks, repair etc?

yes, same aircraft can be used, and it will get "weathered" and worn in the process (partic engine wear and external airplane cosmetic weathering afaik), so if you treat your engine badly in some flights it can have effects later (not sure if this will be "repaired" if your aircraft stays on the ground, but for quick refueling and rearming flights this does come into it).

re killmarks, oleg mentioned "working on it" but i think there was some minor issues to be resolved, might not be implemented by game release time. might also have been to complex to implement right now for some specific technical reason.

Originally Posted by addman

4. Is there any form of strategic elements incorporated, like if I bomb a certain factory it won't be able to continue production.

there might be, oleg has been asked repeated questions on that same topic. for ex, if bombing roads and bridges leading to an airbase or forward troops, will it affect their fighting ability after a while ? or if you keep bombing the fuel supply and repair hangers of an airfield does it prevent that airfield from being active in resupplying aircraft that land there ? no certain answer yet.... but...

from olegs mixed and guarded answers about this he obviously is thinking in that direction (again maybe not fully implemented by release time ?). for ex he has already stated that the AA installations in BoB work by integrating various sub-components, like spot lights, radar towers, and the AA gun itself (and even using different munition types, with munition boxes emptying when firing). if you destroy one element of the whole installation, for ex a spot light it makes the AA gun less efficient, and if you destroy the radar device the AA gun will only fire on visible targets but not anymore as part of a coordinated AA screens etc

i am just going by general memory on this, hopefully oleg or saqson can comment more specifically on how it will work

i fully agree that some of those elements are some of the most interesting developments, and it is what will get people hooked in a big way since their individual actions can have specific effects. (but not enough to affect the outcome of the war in a dynamic campaign server, according to oleg)

[addman]

Big thanks zapatista! Didn't think I would get any anwsers since most posts are about how well modeled the seagulls cloac will be. Wow! Nice to see those features being implemented, now I'm out of questions and eagerly await the release date

[KaHzModAn]

Originally Posted by zapatista

not really, in most crashes there is just a very simplified "canned" damage model implemented that doesnt take the actual physical forces into account working on the airframe.

a good example of this is flying an aircraft from 4000 m altitude straight into the ground at maximum speed (or plummeting to earth after having its wings shot off at that same altitude). in RoF the aircraft will hit the ground, bounce a couple of times, and come to rest with a wing or few other things broken. it looks no different then an aircraft that crashed from 20 meters, yet it should completely disintegrate with its engine half buried into the ground when it plunges down from 4000 meters at full speed.

did you play ROF ? I don't say physical forces are calculated to affect the damage model accordingly... but it's not as bad as you say

from 4000m straight into the ground isn't possible without loosing your wings, so yes, you don't "burry your engine in the ground", but i'm pretty sure we are years away from a sim where impacts will realistically deform the ground...

so you hit the ground at maximum speed ? you know its around 250km/h for the fastest planes right ? even an I-16 can go almost twice that speed ! some WW2 planes can land at the max speed of a late WW1 plane... so why should it instantly be desintegrated ?

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by KaHzModAn

so you hit the ground at maximum speed ? you know its around 250km/h for the fastest planes right ? even an I-16 can go almost twice that speed ! some WW2 planes can land at the max speed of a late WW1 plane... so why should it instantly be desintegrated ?

Because here's what happens to a steel car, which crashes into a wall at 100 km/h:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukq-UUQAcZs

So, why a wood&fabric plane would bounce off the ground after hitting it with the same speed?

[ElAurens]

Thank you SaQSoN, my point entirely. As I recall even Oleg commented on the poor DM in RoF.

There is a lot more to an air combat simulation than pretty 3D models and a small cadre of blinkerd fan boys who are so desperate for anything that they will overlook basic, and show stopping, problems.

Now, let's get back on SoW matters, shall we?

[philip.ed]

OK, so that's one wrong thing about the DM in RoF, but in many respects it has aspects I've seen that trump anything on the market at the moment.