Apache Air Assault Thread

[FOZ_1983]

Cheers for the update MAC, ive been frequenting the yuplay forum for a long time but have since given up.

Gaijen are a disgrace, they just go off the radar and keep quiet and keep throwing us between different support personnel over at activision. I'd understand if anton or the other guy posted on yuplay to inform us of the latest, but they are just keeping their distance.

[Gilly]

Originally Posted by FOZ_1983

Cheers for the update MAC, ive been frequenting the yuplay forum for a long time but have since given up.

Gaijen are a disgrace, they just go off the radar and keep quiet and keep throwing us between different support personnel over at activision. I'd understand if anton or the other guy posted on yuplay to inform us of the latest, but they are just keeping their distance.

Sounds like another smash and grab then run away. Not like them at all!!!

[MACADEMIC]

Sorry Foz and Gilly,

I have to say a word here in Gaijin's defense. I think I can because I got to know them better - they're sponsoring our tournament.

I know that the XBOX guys got burned with BOP and the scars run deep. I also wished you would have at least received a patch, which you didn't. Now we have another title out which has a few problems, on all platforms, and it remains to be seen if it will ever be patched.

The problem in both cases seems to be in the nature of the contracts between Gaijin and the publishers. These contracts don't seem to give them any say, right or whatever to release updates and/or patches themselves, or get the publisher to do so. It's all at the sole discretion of the publishers. So, Gaijin can have a 10 patches, updates or game expansions ready for publication, but if the publisher isn't interested releasing them they'll never see the light of day.

Now why is Gaijin running into the same problem with Apache as they were having with another publisher for BOP? Because in this industry, a game isn't developed overnight, but a project takes a long time to mature. So, before the problems with the first title became evident, contracts for the second one had already been signed.

They have learned their lesson and it will show in their next title. They absolutely don't like to let their customers down and would love to supply them with DLCs, updates and so on. You will see.

I hope this makes sense and we'll see each other on the next title, which will be a WWII flightsim in case you haven't heard yet.

MAC

[Gilly]

I hear what you're saying Mac. I've got to admit the devs communication early on with BoP was second to none but I'd have hoped that the mistakes learned then wouldn't translate into a 2nd title which it appears to gave done with apache- it was one if the reasons I didn't go and buy it initially as I suspected there would be issues and would rather save the money until it was right. It looks like to a degree i was correct.
As for a BoP sequel, bring it on- and I do live with the hope that they will learn from these mistakes although the nagging doubt is out of the two so far both have been flawed and sadly not corrected fully. I note that BlackOps has been reported to the Office of Fair Trading here in the UK on the basis that the current game is not fit for purpose. It'll be interesting to see what transpires as this could then force publishers to ensure games are up to scratch. Sadly as gamers I think the industry bigwigs ride roughshot over us far to often.

[FOZ_1983]

Originally Posted by MACADEMIC

Sorry Foz and Gilly,

I have to say a word here in Gaijin's defense. I think I can because I got to know them better - they're sponsoring our tournament.

I know that the XBOX guys got burned with BOP and the scars run deep. I also wished you would have at least received a patch, which you didn't. Now we have another title out which has a few problems, on all platforms, and it remains to be seen if it will ever be patched.

The problem in both cases seems to be in the nature of the contracts between Gaijin and the publishers. These contracts don't seem to give them any say, right or whatever to release updates and/or patches themselves, or get the publisher to do so. It's all at the sole discretion of the publishers. So, Gaijin can have a 10 patches, updates or game expansions ready for publication, but if the publisher isn't interested releasing them they'll never see the light of day.

Now why is Gaijin running into the same problem with Apache as they were having with another publisher for BOP? Because in this industry, a game isn't developed overnight, but a project takes a long time to mature. So, before the problems with the first title became evident, contracts for the second one had already been signed.

They have learned their lesson and it will show in their next title. They absolutely don't like to let their customers down and would love to supply them with DLCs, updates and so on. You will see.

I hope this makes sense and we'll see each other on the next title, which will be a WWII flightsim in case you haven't heard yet.

MAC

I understand what your saying and i have alot of time for gaijen, at least the communicate in some capacity with their followers. It just annoys me that these things happen and they dont see them in testing. Do they even do testing?? Lets be honest... probably not as much as they could or should. Going away from AAA and back to IL2..

Their was a huge sticker on the box saying that "works superbly with the saitek AV8R"

We all know of the issue with no landing brakes. Its not an in depth thing to find and a major glitch or bug that rarely happens. Its something as simple as landing!! It just makes me think that they want their money ASAP and wont spend the extra few quid making sure the game is 100% up to par.

Its a little title, not cost effective to patch, Gaijen and Activision both know this and did from the start. Anyone complains.. they just pawn them off to different support people. The next game prob wont be published by activision so they are not bothered.

I've rambled on enough and lost track and made myself go cross eyed now

I hope im wrong i really really do because bugs aside, Gaijen make SUPERB games, amongst the best i've played on my xbox 360 without a shadow of a doubt.

Now...

Next game a WW2 flight sim?

Do tell me some more.

[MACADEMIC]

Hi Guys,

I think we all agree that Gaijin is capable of bringing out superb games - that's the only reason why emotions are running so high. We'd like these bugs killed, and we want more of the good stuff!

About the testing and the slipping through of some quite obvious bugs, I can only assume. Assume that the time pressures in this industry are enourmous, and again, that the publisher has final word as to when a title will be released, ready or not. A huge proportion of annual sales happens in the runup for Christmas, too tempting for publishers to forego for the sake of fixing (possibly known) bugs. Because consumer rights presently don't include software to function as to be expected, publishers get away with it. And like I earlier said, unless a game developer has negotiated a right to release updates/patches, they have no way of getting those fixes to the customers even if they have them.

About Activision, I read about the complaint filed with the Fair Trading Commision in the UK. I read Black Ops is suffering from significant bugs on the PS3 and PC (seems to work fine on XBox this time). It's going to be interesting what comes out of it, but will only have significance for the UK, which has such a commission. In the EU or US, software is excluded from consumer rights, although in the EU some vague initiatives are under way.

About Apache, I don't think that the bugs it has can be compared with Black Ops. I have the game both on PC and on PS3, but play it more on PC which allows for customizing my PS3 controller the way I like. It's a really nice game and I don't regret the investment. For the many hours I've played it I'd say it was a bargain (BOP would have been a steal).

But still not giving up on the faint hope that Activision will release the updates they're sitting on.

Cheers guys,

MAC

[SEE]

I hope BOP gets a sequel but also that Anton comes on the forum and simply asks the enthusiasts what features (other than a new theatre of operations, a/c, etc) would make it a console succes. Yes, there would be all sorts of request and not all could make it into the game. For me, a wider margin between Sim and the other Difficulty levels with ac having very similar FM to IL1946 (which Gaigin have access to), a cockpit only option in the MP set up menu but with the abilty to change field of view in cockpit view, and lastly, a co-op MP feature..............I can dream....


Despite losing many of the original players to newer release titles I am pleasantly suprised that BOP (on Xbox) still attracts new players and the game is still popular with flying enthusiasts. You only have to look at the threads and interest in the forthcoming IL2 PC sequel 'CoD' to see that good WW2 flight Sims do have a market (allbeit a niche one!) and many peeps rely on their consoles for entertainment rather than a high spec PC.

[bobbysocks]

the fact is they need BETA testing. they cant be using this or these kinks would have been spotted and worked out well BEFORE even going to a publisher. maybe we ought to talk to anton and run a contest or figure out a way to supply him with honest feedback and eliminate most of their headaches. had they done this with A:AA ( or BoP) they would have known about the problems beforehand and had a chance to correct....hence no need to patch! the demo did not bring these out..it was only when players went through the game that they surfaced. its pretty dang easy to do this too. it would benefit them to give a copy to a few choice people on different platforms to run for a week or so....of course there would be contracts and gag orders...BUT you would get a better game overall.

[trk29]

Here is a question that some may know because I do not.

If they were to release a beta it would have to be downloadable on the psn or marketplace right? And in order for that to happen Gaijin would have to convince the publisher that this is the best thing for the game during development because the publisher would have to pay for it right?

Just looking in the past not many games get this treatment and if they do they are usually huge in scope so if flight sims are niche than I don't see that happening unless the publisher can see return on investment and that is what stinks.

[FOZ_1983]

Originally Posted by trk29

Here is a question that some may know because I do not.

If they were to release a beta it would have to be downloadable on the psn or marketplace right? And in order for that to happen Gaijin would have to convince the publisher that this is the best thing for the game during development because the publisher would have to pay for it right?

Just looking in the past not many games get this treatment and if they do they are usually huge in scope so if flight sims are niche than I don't see that happening unless the publisher can see return on investment and that is what stinks.

Yup it would need to be downloadable on the PSN or XBL marketplace. It will be called a BETA, which only a select few would have access to via code. If they deploy a BETA to the PSN or XBL marketplace then they would surely already have proffesional BETA testers behind the scenes.

IF the publishers saw it as a big title then perhaps it would get a "BETA" much like COD:WaW did (many months prior to release), but with smaller title that has a niche audience then a BETA probably wouldnt happen. Though a demo could, much like the demo for IL2