Luthier Update Clarification Please

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by kendo65

Ace - your interpretation concerning DX11 support is wrong. That statement from Oleg means exactly what it implies, that the game would use DX11 features, i.e. it was intended to be a DX11 game.

Luthier said shortly after release that they attempted a DX11 implementation but had to shelve it temporarily as it was too buggy. Presumably they have been concentrating on other features in the meantime and eventually we will get to see DX11 working in COD.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can adopt such a lawyer-like butchery of the English language in an attempt to prove they are right.

The confusion regarding DX11 implementation in the release publicity is down to the somewhat chaotic way that it was all handled - essentially marketing/publicity were a step or two behind the developers and were still touting a temporarily deprecated feature.

That's 200% correct.

New 3D engine – Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support. Huge variety of photorealistic ground vehicles, buildings and other environmental elements recreate minute details of 1940s Europe.

That's the simple point, no subject for discussion.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by kendo65

Ace - your interpretation concerning DX11 support is wrong.

Hardly..

But don't take my word for it kendo65!

Do a little research and you will see that I am right. In a nut shell DX11 provides something previous versions did not provide, or not fully provide. The key feature being what Microsoft calls feature levels

Knowing in advance that you and people like you are too lazy to actually do the leg work to research this I took the liberty of collecting the links and pertinent references for you in the following.. Enjoy (or chock on it, either way is fine by me)

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...(v=VS.85).aspx

Getting Started with DirectX Graphics
Microsoft DirectX graphics provides a set of APIs that you can use to create games and other high-performance multimedia applications. DirectX graphics includes support for high-performance 2-D and 3-D graphics.

For 3-D graphics, use the Microsoft Direct3D 11 API. Even if you have Microsoft Direct3D 9-level or Microsoft Direct3D 10-level hardware, you can use the Direct3D 11API and target a feature level 9_x or feature level 10_x device.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr....aspx#Overview

Direct3D 11 on Downlevel Hardware (feature level)
To handle the diversity of video cards in new and existing machines, Microsoft Direct3D 11 introduces the concept of feature levels. Each video card implements a certain level of Microsoft Direct3D functionality depending on the graphics processing unit (GPU) installed. In prior versions of Direct3D, you could find out the version of Direct3D the video card implemented, and then program your application accordingly.

With Direct3D 11, a new paradigm is introduced called feature levels. A feature level is a well defined set of GPU functionality. For instance, the 9_1 feature level implements the functionality that was implemented in Microsoft Direct3D 9, which exposes the capabilities of shader models ps_2_x and vs_2_x, while the 11_0 feature level implements the functionality that was implemented in Direct3D 11.

Now when you create a device, you can attempt to create a device for the feature level that you want to request. If the device creation works, that feature level exists, if not, the hardware does not support that feature level. You can either try to recreate a device at a lower feature level or you can choose to exit the application. See D3D11CreateDevice.

Now after reading that, it is clear to all those who have a basic understanding of programing as to why 1C would choose to use the DX 11 API.

Your milage may vary kendo65

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

the bottom line is - game is released in alpha state; was unplayable on most machines, lacking proper FSAA (still is), with crap sounds, full screen missing, full video options, etc (not to mention the circus with epileptic filter)....we can talk about bugs and how sims are complicated etc....but if majority of folks had literally slideshows after the game was released.....and we still have serious performance issus (example, when the dust and other effects are near, when more planes are near down low etc.) then we have the right to be disappointed.

Bottom line is we got everything that was advertised and more

[LoBiSoMeM]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Bottom line is we got everything that was advertised and more

"We don't have AA in this picture because the PC used was old..."

Stop, please...

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

That's 200% correct.

New 3D engine – Latest-gen graphics engine with DX10 and DX11 API support. Huge variety of photorealistic ground vehicles, buildings and other environmental elements recreate minute details of 1940s Europe.

That's the simple point, no subject for discussion.

Clearly you are confused as to the definition of API support.. Take a moment and read my last post with the Microsoft links that described what DX 11 API support provides.. Assuming you want to learn and not whine?

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Well said Aces Agreed on all points, other than the fact that the statement was/is misleading to those of us who have limited knowledge in these areas, and unless I had asked the opinion of someone as knowledgeable as yourself, I really would have believed the game was making use of DX-11 (as many others clearly have too). My remark on 'necessity' was in reference to DX-11 being needed to run the game.

This debate aside, it doesn't sugar-coat the issues surrounding release videos on portraying the game (in showing how the release was misleading), but I think we understand one-another better now.

S!

I admit, it is confusing.. But just because we are confused on some aspects does not mean 1C, UBI, STEAM cheated us out of something or fool us into something.

All this talk of DX 11 even forced me to do a little more research on the mater, and now it is clear as rain as to what 1C, UBI, STEAM meant by DX 11 API support. Turns out that not only does DX 11 provide more features that are not in DX 10, but DX 11 also provides something they call feature levels, basically a build in hardware auto detect of sorts that makes life much easier on the programing team.

Problem is most people here see DX 11 but they don't see the API after it and expect this game to be using DX features that are exclusive to DX 11. As in features not in DX 10. I think those who want to learn will see that now and correct themselves.. As for those that just want a reason to whine.. Well no amount of information is going to change what they think.

[kendo65]

You are still wrong Aces - either willfully or through ignorance.

Any sensible, plain English interpretation of what is meant by 'DX11 game' or 'DX11 supported' is that specific DX 11 features will be used in the game. This is what was intended to happen with COD. It is what the developers were working on. It is what Oleg was referring to in the link.

None-implementation of any specifically DX11 features means the game is not currently DX11 in any reasonable meaning of the term - certainly for trade description and legal purposes I don't think any company would attempt to take the line that you seem to be suggesting.

Whether it uses feature levels to provide backwards compatibility with DX 9, 10 or 10.1 hardware or some previous means of doing so is immaterial.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by kendo65

You are still wrong Aces - either willfully or through ignorance.

Any sensible, plain English interpretation of what is meant by 'DX11 game' or 'DX11 supported' is that specific DX 11 features will be used in the game. This is what was intended to happen with COD. It is what the developers were working on. It is what Oleg was referring to in the link.

None-implementation of any specifically DX11 features means the game is not currently DX11 in any reasonable meaning of the term - certainly for trade description and legal purposes I don't think any company would attempt to take the line that you seem to be suggesting.

Whether it uses feature levels to provide backwards compatibility with DX 9, 10 or 10.1 hardware or some previous means of doing so is immaterial.

As I noted above.. I think those who want to learn will see that now and correct themselves.. As for those that just want a reason to whine.. Well no amount of information is going to change what they think.

[kendo65]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

Problem is most people here see DX 11 but they don't see the API after it and expect this game to be using DX features that are exclusive to DX 11. As in features not in DX 10.

That is the CORRECT meaning of the term in this context - ie what Oleg meant in his reply.

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

I think those who want to learn will see that now and correct themselves.. As for those that just want a reason to whine.. Well no amount of information is going to change what they think.

You are just WRONG!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by kendo65

You are just WRONG!

Hardly..

But you clearly are confusing DX11 with DX11 API support

Take a deep breath, count to 10 (not 11, pun intended) and read Microsofts definitioin of DX 11 API support