I Want my 4.09 Spit FM's back.........

[41Sqn_Banks]

Originally Posted by Corto

Here is the BBC Doc:
Spit 14.7 sec of fire Pee Shooter Ammo vs Me 109 55 sec of fire.. nearly 4 times as long!

Well ...

Spitfire 8 machine guns to fire vs. Me 109 2 machine guns to fire ... nearly 4 times of guns!

I'm not counting the MG FF, 'cause the 55 sec. of fire only applies to the machine guns, not the canons.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by 41Sqn_Banks

Well ...

Spitfire 8 machine guns to fire vs. Me 109 2 machine guns to fire ... nearly 4 times of guns!

I'm not counting the MG FF, 'cause the 55 sec. of fire only applies to the machine guns, not the canons.

Quite right. This was the first thing that glared at me from the way this documentary was presented when I saw the first broadcast.
The 109 has to hold a 'plane in it's sights 4 times as long to get same weight of projectiles on target, compared to Hurris and Spits, using machine guns alone.
As it happens 55 secs is near enough four times 14.7secs. Roughly the same rate of fire.
The sensible view of this is that the 109 pilots had loads of time to sight the target with their m/g's, then let go with a short burst of cannon.

[SEE]

Whatever the differences, planes on both sides were shot down. Axis Bomber crews suffered heavily, their fighters had low combat time, RAF tactics improved whereas Axis were impeded by Goering's close escort strategy. In simple gaming terms the Spit may well appear to be at a disadvantage given the nature of on-line participation. If there are more 'blue' flyers in CoD MP then at least that will be accurate. I just hope they (Axis Fighters) have low fuel tanks and some of the Allied flyers can work together as a team (which rarely happens at the mo!)

[David603]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

The sensible view of this is that the 109 pilots had loads of time to sight the target with their m/g's, then let go with a short burst of cannon.

Well, that's a good explaination for Il2, but the RL Bf-109E had all the guns linked to the same trigger

Separate MG and Cannon triggers didn't come until the Bf-109F.

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by David603

Well, that's a good explaination for Il2, but the RL Bf-109E had all the guns linked to the same trigger

Separate MG and Cannon triggers didn't come until the Bf-109F.

That is just plain wrong.

http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/arc...chusswaffe.pdf

The E-1/3 detailed here feature already the seperate triggers for cowl MGs (Abzughebel / A-Knopf) and wing MGs/cannons (B-Knopf).

[David603]

Originally Posted by Zorin

That is just plain wrong.

http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/arc...chusswaffe.pdf

The E-1/3 detailed here feature already the seperate triggers for cowl MGs (Abzughebel / A-Knopf) and wing MGs/cannons (B-Knopf).

Ahh

Read it in a book a while back (think it was by William Green, but not 100% sure on that). Probably should have checked other sources first

[engarde]

I want my previous state of perceived knowledge rather than this altered state of whatever!

I havent got a fckn CLUE how a Spit actually flies, but i demand you change it !

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by David603

Ahh

Read it in a book a while back (think it was by William Green, but not 100% sure on that). Probably should have checked other sources first

May have been a bit harsh with my choice of words, so I am glad you took it in a sporting manner. It is just that I don't like to see others being corrected without actual presentation of proof.

[Friendly_flyer]

Originally Posted by FC99

Hi,
our float carburetor and Shilling orifice model is primarily based on description in Pilot's Notes General AP 2095. We would welcome any better source than that.

I am primarily an off-line flyer, and don't really care about one side having an edge over another. I fly almost exclusively "red", preferring Hurricanes rather than Spitfires. I am extremely pleased with the "new" 'Tilly orifice'! Thank you TD for making the game more immersive!

From a purely game enjoyment-POW, I think neutral trim for all planes (not just Spitfires) should be set to combat speed. When you are cruising around at economy setting, you have all the time in the world to fiddle with the trim-knob. When in a fight you have more than enough with keeping an eye on temperatures, superchargers and stalls, not to mention trying not to get shot down. Going straight and level for a few seconds to adjust your trim is fairly low on the priority-list.

I have no idea how trim was adjusted in real life. I suppose a pilot could always ask the mechanics to adjust it to his personal liking. I would therefore like to ask TD if they would consider changing the trim setting so that "neutral" trim is close to maximal cruise speed rather than to maximal fuel economy cruise speed in the upcoming 4.11 patch. Would that be possible without upsetting some other aspect of the game code?

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by Corto

Here is the BBC Doc:

Spit 14.7 sec of fire Pee Shooter Ammo vs Me 109 55 sec of fire.. nearly 4 times as long!

If this and other facts are modeld in Olegs "realistic Simulation" "Cliffs of Dover".... no one will fly spit.....
---

There were strengths and weaknesses in both aircraft and at the end of the day, pilot skill and experience was almost always the deciding factor. I think you'll find that not everyone chooses a ride based on ego alone. Just because an aircraft is outclassed in a certain department doesn't mean people will avoid it. If the Spit was good enough for our boys in 1940 then it sure is good enough for me now.

Check out the BoB loss figures and you'll find that the Spits and Hurris did a pretty good job, irrespective of how superior the 109 was.