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#211
09-01-2010, 05:23 PM
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#212
09-01-2010, 05:57 PM
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I quite see your point Lobosrul, and I think the very facts you quote are a large part of why it took more than 50 years before the contributions of the Bomber Command was officially recognised. I do not think the similarity was lost on neither on civilians, nor on the military, "Bomber Harris" reputation considered.
It may also have played a part in why Churchill was not reelected in the 1945 July election.
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#213
09-01-2010, 05:57 PM
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Sadly my posts usually end up on the last segment of a page because I think my last one had a couple good points in it.
Yes it's true that conventional terror bombing was done by everyone really. RAF, Luftwaffe and the USA. The point is that there is a difference between the effectiveness of these bombs and also atomic bombs are not just a bomb blast. They radiate huge areas and modern atomic or even hydrogen bombs are deadly. Especially what we call "Schmutzige Bombe" (Dirty bomb) in German, also known as salted bombs in english, are basically horrendous weapons not even aiming at destorying military targets but literally poisoning an area and killing off organic life. I'd be very glad if we could keep the game ethically and morally intact. Yes, a lot of things happened during the 2nd world war and even in many wars after that. But like I said, just because murder of civillians or rape or things like that happened it doesn't mean that these are legitimate actions and should be simulated. In another thread people have been argueing about a little blood effect for pilot kills and here we want to make people "virtually" murder innocents? It's really questionable in my book and I'd be glad not seeing something like that in the game.
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#215
09-01-2010, 07:34 PM
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Xilon I was just WONDERING why you seemingly feel the NEED to RANDOMLY put things IN CAPS all the TIME for no apparent REASON?
In fact, NEVER MIND it doesn't MATTER. 
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#216
09-01-2010, 08:28 PM
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Kokura, at the time of the planned attack, was under a thick layer of clouds. Three attempts were made and then aborted. Sweeney had the order to drop the bomb on industrial targets only, originally. However, since the gas ran out they flew to Nagasaki and dropped it there. Nagasaki was an important harbor... guess where they dropped the bomb though... before http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...fects-p10a.jpg after http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...fects-p10b.jpg As you can see for yourself... these bombs do not hit accurately... in fact they didn't hit the targets at all. They just evaporate everything in the area and obviously that means that the harbor itself was pointless and "destroyed". It's still something that by todays means is a war crime like anything else. To the people that defend these weapons so strongly: I want to raise the question: are you just overly pro-allies or what are your intentions? Because if it's just about simulating each aspect of the war... would you also demand we re-create games where jews, German political targets and/or disabled Germans will be put into concentration camps and murdered brutally by the player? These captured people didn't have a chance to fight back either. Atomic bombs, concentration camps and some, if not many, bombing runs were pure murder and slaughter of innocents. I think there should be limits to what we gamers should do or not do. I'm not sure what you hope to gain by dropping weapons such as this but I fear that your intentions might be... questionable at best. There is a difference between a fight amongst armies and slaughter of civillians by an army. That goes for all sides, axis and allies. But then again, allowing players to kill mindlessly... I really wonder if that is what the developers intend to do and I'm almost certain that it is not their plan.
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#217
09-01-2010, 08:31 PM
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il-2 have only conventional army but in realty in ww2 american use illegal army EXAMPLE mustard gas BOMBs yes i remember
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Raid_on_Bari i not see the difference from 100.000.000 convetional bombs and one 1 nuke bomb the difference is the quantity. WE must also admit that to build one nuclear bomb it took a lot of money scientists and plutonium. difficulties' huge during ww2.
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#218
09-01-2010, 08:48 PM
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But although you are right it is still a difference if you use them against civillians or a military target. So should we, like it was done in real life, simulate concentration camps and use atomic bombs or chemical weapons now? I'm not so sure about that. I do understand your point, and being German I might even go so far and say: yes, show the truth and don't hide the wrongdoings of the allieds under mist. But then again, sometimes a hero can be born out of evil and I believe in this case it's better to just keep silent to prevent aviation sims from suffering under such absurdly unethical weapons. What's your oppinion? [EDIT] And by the way, the attack on Bari is interesting. It could be campaign material even but it appears that no German intel on the mustard gas bombs existed so I guess it wouldn't make much sense after all. Last edited by Madfish; 09-01-2010 at 08:51 PM.
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#219
09-01-2010, 10:21 PM
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Splitter, as promised, here you go:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/wo...l/doctrine.htm After reading the document you should realize that Israel is afraid of the existence of a nuke in its neighborhood because it would cross it's defense strategy. No one thinks the Iran would nuke Israel. But: If there was a conventional war, and one or more of the involved nations has access to nukes - NO ONE can use them. It's a nuclear pat. And that is what scares the shit out of the Israelis, they would have to rely on conventional warfare to defend themselves - and most likely fail. But there still the Samson Option...
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#220
09-01-2010, 10:28 PM
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Sure works, if you have nuclear power to fill the gap when there's no wind. 
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