UFO's and extra-terrestrial life

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

There's a good read by Andrew Smith called 'Moondust'. It's a simple book where Smith - in around 1999/2000 - interviews the men who went to the moon .

Yep, read it. I enjoyed the part when the author expressed his anxiety about interviewing Gene Cernan, hoping he wouldn't be subject to Cernan's familiar 'after-dinner', 'flowery' descriptions of 17. Sure enough within seconds of asking Gene about his experience the author is treated to exactly that.

Only it dawns on Smith that no matter how corny or hackneyed it may sound to familiar ears, Gene Cernan is nevertheless the only one out of just 12 people on Earth who has made a concerted attempt to communicate the human feelings involved in walking upon another world to the public. That's a hell of a task.

Glad you brought it up, i'll have to dig it out if I still have it.

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by Oldschool61

Billions of people believe in something that has absolutley no historical ,scientific or eyewitness evidence. So based on that criteria UFO witnesses are just as credible.

I agree.

I think Oldschool's beginning to see the light, chaps! We nearly have him in our clutches!!

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by Lixma

I agree.

I think Oldschool's beginning to see the light, chaps! We nearly have him in our clutches!!

Oh your a freethinker too.

[Wandalen]

Interesting topic Think it's very entertaining to look at all the weird youtube videos. But this is just some of the most believable I've seen, especially when it comes from such a person of such caliber.
But still a little hard and believe in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkBhM...eature=related

[Lixma]

People should hear what is being said rather than just listening to who is saying it.

In that video Cooper describes seeing extra terrestrial craft while flying in Europe during the war. Assuming these things are physical real (which, given the description of them making impossible manoeuvres it seems unlikely) then how on Earth does he know they are extra terrestrial in origin? Answer: he doesn't. He hasn't a clue what he saw....but a lot of people really want it to have been extra terrestrials; including, it seems, Cooper.

Note also his account of the saucer photograph. A couple of guys under his supervision claim to have taken a picture of a flying saucer that helpfully landed in front of them and then flew off again. Cooper then, after establishing the proper procedure for these things, instructs the cameramen to send the negatives off to God knows where. End of story. Call Spielberg!

[Oldschool61]

[QUOTE=Lixma;322278]People should hear what is being said rather than just listening to who is saying it.

![/QUOTE

Ok now follow me closly so you dont get confused....ok here goes...he was a fighter pilot who is a trained observer. He know what type of craft humans fly and what there capabilities are. When you see something that has no wings or signs of propulsion and can fly circles around anything you have then its a pretty good chance its not of this planet. Typically airforce pilots are flying the most advanced crafts humans can make.

[Rattlehead]

Originally Posted by Wolf_Rider

One of the best means of "protecting" a situation, is to give factual information to discredited nutter outlets and false information to credible outlets....

Very true.

[Rattlehead]

Originally Posted by Lixma

People should hear what is being said rather than just listening to who is saying it.

In that video Cooper describes seeing extra terrestrial craft while flying in Europe during the war. Assuming these things are physical real (which, given the description of them making impossible manoeuvres it seems unlikely) then how on Earth does he know they are extra terrestrial in origin? Answer: he doesn't. He hasn't a clue what he saw....but a lot of people really want it to have been extra terrestrials; including, it seems, Cooper.

What makes you state that Cooper wanted what he saw to be of extra-terrestrial origin? You're reaching here I feel.
I think it's a perfectly valid assumption considering the performance of these aircraft relative to his own, which were supposedly cutting edge for the time.
What was he supposed to think?

Unfortunately it's a common trend to immediately set about discrediting witnesses of UFO events. Yes, pilots and astronauts are ultimately just human beings like the rest of us, but at the same time they I feel are a lot less likely to blurt out 'I saw a UFO' than Joe Soap, given their relative expertise of identifying aircraft and their reputations as professionals.

The whole UFO phenomenon has become very sensationalist over the years, and I do think it's pertinent to be on the lookout for the exaggerated, sensationalist aspect of the subject and guard against it, but at the same time it's easy to fall into the mindset that everyone has an agenda or that every single sighting or encounter with UFO phenomena does not merit scrutiny.

[Lixma]

Oldschool, this reply to Rattlehead will serve ably, I think, as a reply to you.

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

What makes you state that Cooper wanted what he saw to be of extra-terrestrial origin? You're reaching here I feel.

I took it from the fact that in the video he called these unknown objects extra terrestrial before he'd even described their characteristics.

Although it is funny. You've just watched a man claim he saw alien spaceships and you think i'm reaching!

I think it's a perfectly valid assumption considering the performance of these aircraft relative to his own, which were supposedly cutting edge for the time. What was he supposed to think?

The 'assumption' (actually a conclusion) could not be less valid if it tried. It's a text-book case of the argument from ignorance: "I don't know what these things are, I don't understand how these things can do what they do - therefore I think they must be from outer space.".

Let's couch that in different terms to better see the error.

"I don't know what these things are, I don't understand how these things can do what they do - therefore I think they must be from another dimension."

"I don't know what these things are, I don't understand how these things can do what they do - therefore I think they must be demonic apparitions."

"I don't know what these things are, I don't understand how these things can do what they do - therefore I think they must be witches in flight."

There is no evidence at all that whatever Cooper saw is in any way extra terrestrial. None. Weird, yes. Worthy of further investigation? Sure. But to arrive at the conclusion of ETs is just a leap in the dark.

Unfortunately it's a common trend to immediately set about discrediting witnesses of UFO events.

Don't mistake using sceptical tools as 'discrediting'. Examining logically a person's testimony is not the same as discrediting the source.

Yes, pilots and astronauts are ultimately just human beings like the rest of us, but at the same time they I feel are a lot less likely to blurt out 'I saw a UFO' than Joe Soap, given their relative expertise of identifying aircraft and their reputations as professionals.

It's not the announcement of seeing UFOs that's the problem. It's their completely un-supported identification as ETs, angels, demons or fairies that causes trouble.

The whole UFO phenomenon has become very sensationalist over the years, and I do think it's pertinent to be on the lookout for the exaggerated, sensationalist aspect of the subject and guard against it, but at the same time it's easy to fall into the mindset that everyone has an agenda or that every single sighting or encounter with UFO phenomena does not merit scrutiny.

Couldn't agree more.

I've seen a UFO. An unspectacular but utterly baffling 10 seconds of my life. I'm not sceptical of UFOs. I'm sceptical of the claims about UFOs.

[Lixma]

Just a quick follow up. The Wiki page on Foo Fighters has an interesting reference at the bottom. It's mentions a study by the United States Navy Bureau of Medicine called Project X-148-AV-4-3.

During April 1945, the US Navy began to experiment on visual illusions as experienced by night time aviators......This project pioneered the study of aviators' vertigo and was initiated because a wide variety of anomalous events were being reported by night time aviators.

The head of the study, Dr. Edgar Vinacke leaves us this interesting quote...

Pilots do not have sufficient information about phenomena of disorientation, and, as a corollary, are given considerable disorganized, incomplete, and inaccurate information. They are largely dependent upon their own experience, which must supplement and interpret the traditions about 'vertigo' which are passed on to them. When a concept thus grows out of anecdotes cemented together with practical necessity, it is bound to acquire elements of mystery. So far as 'vertigo' is concerned, no one really knows more than a small part of the facts, but a great deal of the peril. Since aviators are not skilled observers of human behavior, they usually have only the vaguest understanding of their own feelings. Like other naive persons, therefore, they have simply adopted a term to cover a multitude of otherwise inexplicable events.

(my emphasis).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foo_fighter

Am I suggesting that vertigo is therefore the cause of all these sightings? No. And to even suggest the possibility that Gordo Cooper of all people may have suffered from vertigo is no doubt considered by some to be a slight upon his name.

Nevertheless, it demonstrates that pilots (trained observers or otherwise) are every bit as susceptible to disorientation as the rest of us mortals. And given our knowledge of these effects it really should temper our desire to cry ET when other, more mundane (and much more serious) factors are at play.