KBDS Normal/Hard/Impossible No-loss thread - Page 20

MattCaspermeyer · #**191** 09-19-2014, 05:47 PM

Did you do the Catacombs stacks? You've got to at least do the 3 easiest ones (I know, they can sometimes be really hard, but you've got Frost Grasp so that makes them easier) to guarantee that you get level 5 after taking the Dwarven Shelter stack out or at the very most the Dwarven and Human stacks. The Human stack is very easy with Kamikaze, I'm telling you. See if fighting them will push you over.

For the Elves, you've got to do your best to position your Vamps so they are not one shotted, but if they are it is okay, because in Bat form you can regrow your numbers - don't forget that!

Also, positioning of your Vamps with both the Human and Elven stacks at the start of the fight is everything so experiment with positioning to maximize their regeneration in Vamp form and giving you the opportunity to transform to Bat to then escape. Don't forget, also, that once you transform you automatically heal to full health, so waiting for everyone to move and then transforming is often the difference between living and dying.

Losing 1 Vamp is no biggie in any of the fights, as you can regrow them towards the end of the fight back to their original numbers so don't worry if you lose 1. Transform back to Vamp if that last Bat looks like it is going to die, to get the full heal, and to heal for easy addition of Bat #2 when regrowing!

I'll be trying this game later and we'll see if I can do it - I know you can, just keep trying!

***EDIT***

Okay, I see what you're up against - 108 Fairies and 9 Elves, oof! You only got 4 Werewolves in one stack, but I'd rather have 11 and 1 less Elf, but this is what we got to deal with. I say you have to be level 5 to do this one, but there is a wrinkle since the Fairies can dispel your Kamikaze! I just went ahead to see what you had to deal with, but I can see needing to get as much exp as possible to be level 5. I didn't check the Human stack out, but I don't think it'll be a problem compared to the Elves, so do the Elves last. You will lose 1 Vamp because the min damage is 9x8 = 72 (you might get very lucky and not lose one, but I wouldn't count on it). So you'll have to make it up at the end of the fight.

Feel free to switch to the other Kamikaze save because I can see that this one is probably going to be exceedingly hard. I'll still give this one an honest effort, though later...

/C\/C\

Zhuangzi · #**192** 09-20-2014, 01:49 AM

Matt, in that game I left the two hardest Catacombs stacks, which meant I was just a few points short of Level 5 by the time I hit the Shelter and defeated the Dwarves. I am trying the other Kamikaze save instead in the hope that it will prove easier. I don't know how you or anyone else manages to whittle down those huge stacks of spiders in such a small arena. I can manage all but two of them. I guess I will try again! I am wondering whether I ought to prioritise Diversions 2 somehow. I don't know if it's possible to get Diversions 2 and Chaos 2 by level 5...

MattCaspermeyer · #**193** 09-20-2014, 09:40 AM

I'm not gonna lie: this battle with the Elves pushed me to my limits, in fact I had essentially given up and was going to post here in the forum that I didn't think it was possible.

However, I went back at it again and I was able to do it!

First and foremost thanks to Frost Grasp, I was able to do the 3 easiest Catacombs stacks and the Spider stack in front of the Dragandor gate. These fights will give you enough exp to get to Level 5 after defeating the Dwarven Shelter stack.

Everything had to fall into place right with the Elven stack fight - one misstep and you'd die.

I also had to resort to a tactic that I don't like to use, but the Diversion skill's effects change if you save the game, start the fight, reload, immediately save again, start the fight, reload the newer save, save again, and start the fight - if the troops that you want get Diverted, then you reload the older save when trying it again. If not, then you load the newer save and repeat the above steps until the troops that you want to be Diverted are affected and then proceed to use this save game as your basis for trying to defeat the Elves.

This was actually the first time I used this strategy to do a fight no loss.

So with this strategy, I was able to get the Elves and Lake Fairies Diverted on round 1 and the 4 Werewolves stack killed themselves on the trap. You can't get any better than that! After this, finding the right sequence was exceedingly difficult, but I took the Elves from 9 -> 6 with Poison Skull Level 2 on round 1 (so that the Elves could no longer kill one of my Vampires at the start of round 2), and the Fauns from 13 -> 2 with Poison Skull on round 2 (and then the Poison took them down to 1). On round 3, this is the key, I used the Kamikaze scroll since the Lake Fairies have the Dispel ability. By this time, on round 3 the 12 Werewolves and 108 Lake Fairies were a hex away from my Vamps and so I had to transform to Bats, but you have to wait until everyone does their turn so that you can take advantage of your Bats getting full health on the transformation. On round 4, the Lake Fairies dispelled the Kamikaze on them, ending their turn and allowing my Bats to escape. So then I cast Kamikaze Level 2 on the Werewolves before they began their turn and then ran away as far as I could. The Elves were down to 5 at this point due to the Poison and the Fauns at just 1 were pretty much irrelevant at this point. I then had to position my Bats to get the Lake Fairies to position themselves so that they'd take a route that would allow my Bats to keep escaping. I then took the Elves from 5 down to 1 with a Poison Skull. On the next round I had to use Frost Grasp to damage the Lake Fairies so that they were small enough after the bomb went off not to hurt me too much. I then positioned my Bats so that I could get the Lake Fairies and Werewolves to be adjacent and 1 hex away when the bomb went off. It took out 8 Werewolves and the Lake Fairies were down to about 44. I was also able to transform back to Vampires and I still (luckily) had 2 left (they were probably down to 5 hp when they regenerated). They were able to regenerate and stay at 2 as I then used another Kamikaze scroll on the Lake Fairies and then another on the Werewolves, which were still at 4 units. Unfortunately, the Werewolves transformed on me canceling the spell, but I was able to take them down by regenerating Mana and using a Level 2 Frost Grasp on them leaving 1 left. I then had enough Mana to cast a Level 1 Frost Grasp later to finish them off and the rest was history!

I probably tried this fight 50+ times to get the sequence right!

The key to this fight was to Divert the Elves and Lake Fairies on round 1 because without this, there is simply no way to do it. The next key was using the Kamikaze scroll saving me 5 Mana (I had been casting it @Level 1 since I knew the Fairies would dispel it, but I really needed that 5 Mana to cast Frost Grasp @Level 2 on the Fairies later) so that I could take the Elves from 5 down to 1 and use Frost Grasp to kill about 20 Fairies (using the scroll left me with me exactly 7 Mana for me to cast it @Level 2 on the exact round that I needed it).

As you can see, everything had to fall into place, with most damage being at least above average and sometimes even close to maximum (especially to take that pesky Faun stack from 13 down to eventually 1 unit).

I then did the Human stack, which was actually pretty easy since you just cast Kamikaze Level 2 on the Priests (13 of them) and then the Bowmen (18 of them) on the next turn. Two casts of either Poison Skull or Frost Grasp took the Inquisitors down to 1 or 2 and then I finished them off with another spell (@Level 1). At the end of round 3 the first bomb went off, and then the second on round 4 killed the remaining Priests and Bowmen. Lastly the Guardsmen and Swordsmen are severely damaged with another Kamikaze at Level 2 and then I whittled them down the rest of the way as they were the only troops left.

By the way, it is better to get Concentration Level 2 rather than Meditation Level 1 for the Kamikaze strategy, because you only get +6 Mana with Meditation, but over a 20+ round fight you'll actually regenerate enough Mana for at least 2 extra spell casts (you'll essentially regenerate 27 Mana compared to just 12 or 13)! With this I only had 28 Mana at the start of the fight.

If you don't get Lake Fairies, but rather Sprites, then the Elven stack is significantly easier (I had Sprites in my test) as they only move 4 and can't dispel your Kamikaze's. You simply cast Kamikaze once each on the Sprites and 2 Werewolves and they should almost all be dead after all the bombs go off and then just work on the Elves with a Poison Skull / Frost Grasp or two and you're good to go!

I sure hope the other save game has Sprites instead of Lake Fairies because this was even harder than the Ball of Lighting!

I haven't done the Basement or Whitehill, yet, but the Elven Shelter stack is so much harder than those, I'm not worried.

By the way, I repeated the fight to take some screenshots - I probably don't need to use the remaining 2 Kamikaze scrolls as they can't hurt me any more towards the end.

/C\/C\

Zhuangzi · #**194** 09-20-2014, 11:41 AM

Crap, well done. I have tried and tried but I can't seem to do either of those fights currently. I am playing the other Kamikaze save so my stacks are different. I may have to restart AGAIN with your game.

MattCaspermeyer · #**195** 09-20-2014, 07:58 PM

Okay, finished up the fights through Whitehill no loss with the 4 Kamikaze scrolls in the Dragandor Ore Cart save game.

Some of the Basement stacks were a little tricky, but once you figure out which unit is going to be in the middle when that Level 2 Kamikaze goes off, you can really optimize the damage output of that spell.

By the way, Level 2 Diversion is possible @Daert Level 6. In this game, the exp was lousy as I needed to kill all 3 Basement stacks and complete the digging quest to get to level 6.

Whitehill was a little tricky because the easiest stack ended up not being the easiest and so I switched to a harder stack. With the harder one, I used the Jealousy feature where a ranged stack that runs away from the Statue stays Jealous after the Statue disappears. That made it really easy.

Overall, this was easier than the Ball of Lightning strategy except for the Elven Shelter stack, which has been by far the toughest no loss fight I've done so far with Daert and these save games.

I sure hope the other Kamikaze save game has Sprites because then it would be a lot easier.

By the way, I think we need some more options about what Daert says back to the Spirit of Darkness for when we defeat the Shelter Guardians:

Quote:

Spirit of Darkness: "Daert, did you kill the Guards of Light?"

Daert:

"Yes, it was not difficult."
"I will come back soon with a report! (Leave.)"
"Yes, it was so easy that I'd like to take on the Light with just 2 Vampires and no spells for the next 500 fights!"
Are you freaking kidding me? What the holy @#$% was that?!
I bet if Neoline drew the shortest straw it would have been easy!

I'd really like to hear what you would say to the Spirit of Darkness after completing Daert no loss through the Shelter!

/C\/C\

Zhuangzi · #**196** 09-20-2014, 09:20 PM

A couple of things for anyone else crazy enough to try this (I haven't finished the final two fights yet)...

1. You MUST be level 5 by the time you defeat the Dwarven stack, the first of the Shelter stacks.

2. By level 5, you've spent your runes on Diversions 1, Concentration 2 and Chaos Magic 2. You'll have about 4 Mind and 4 Magic runes to spare. This is so that you can have a pool of about 50 mana for each fight, you can cast Level 2 Kamikaze and Frost Grasp, and you have one trap on the field (and a chance for troops to lose their turn, which as Matt explained, you'll have to abuse to get through these last two fights).

3. You need to do 10 fights to get up to Level 5 by this stage. These are 3 on Portland (easy), 3 in the Catacombs (quite hard - all but the two biggest spider stacks), 1 Spider in Dragandor (very hard), 1 when you get Bagyr/Neoline (very easy), 1 Captain of the Guard (quite easy now that you are level 4) and the Dwarven stack in the Shelter (easy but time consuming).

4. All of these fights are using just 2 Vampires. You could use the Ghosts as well to draw enemies away on certain fights. You will have to learn how to use Vampires optimally, which means learning exactly when to move and transform them. The great strength of Vampires is that they regain ALL hp when they transform, so it's very important to learn to use the Wait command strategically.

5. Having said all of the above, I've been banging my head against the wall with this over the past couple of days.

DGDobrev · #**197** 09-20-2014, 10:30 PM

Good job guys, good job

You are lining up the stars and planets for poor Daert like expert tacticians. I don't know if I feel masochistic enough to try this myself, but I do know I will have a go at it sometime in the future.

Zhuangzi · #**198** 09-21-2014, 03:49 AM

I can't do this! I am up to these two fights on BOTH Kamikaze games and I can't manage either stack in either game. Very sad.

The amount of reloading and resaving you need to do to get those particular troops diverted, geez. I guess if I got the EXACT two troops diverted (Elves and Lake Fairies) I might be able to do it, or not.

The other Kamikaze save is easier in some ways and harder in others.

9 Elves -------------------- 9 Elves
12 Werewolves----------- 13 Werewolves
108 Lake Fairies --------- 83 Forest Fairies (okay, that's better!)
4 Werewolves ------------ 13 Werewolves (ouch!)
13 Fauns ----------------- 10 Fauns

So yes, I can see that the Forest Fairies are easier (and slower) BUT you can't force them to skip their move by dispelling, and with the extra stack of Werewolves, christ.

And the other fight...

10 Guardsmen ----------- 12 Guardsmen
13 Priest of Light--------- 15 Priest of Light
18 Bowmen -------------- 21 Bowmen
7 Inquisitors of Light ----- 8 Inquisitors of Light
19 Swordsmen ----------- 12 Witch Hunters (and they dispel the bombs!)

I have tried various tactics on all four fights. I have tried to get two troops diverted through laborious save scumming. I have tried splitting the vamps or keeping them in a pair. I've even tried loading up with ranged units and hoping to get lucky with what their ranged units shoot at.

Nup, not working, not ever.

MattCaspermeyer · #**199** 09-21-2014, 04:35 AM

Okay, I think you need to practice on the Human fights in both of your saves first.

Believe me, you won't believe how much easier they are to do than the Elven stacks.

You may find that with both Elves and Humans placing both Vamps in your leftmost slot will work the best for you.

Doing this ensures that the Werewolves by the Fauns move to the their right (your left). For the Humans, it won't matter as the Guardsmen will go down one path and the Swordsmen the other.

You actually can stay in Vampire form for both Human fights until the melee troops are basically right on you. It is very important that the Priests do not Heal and kill both of your Vamps. Losing one is okay - don't sweat it, it's easy to regenerate on the Guardsmen / Swordsmen later.

For the Humans, cast the first Level 2 Kamikaze on the Priests and then the second on the Bowmen. Then use Poison Skull / Frost Grasp Level 2 on the Inquisitors.

By the time the melee troops are upon you, careful waiting, moving to escape, and then being second (after the Inquisitors) will allow to escape in Vampire form and then the Priests and Bowmen should be dead by the time you need to transform to Bats with just the melee troops and maybe an Inquisitor or two left. Finish them off with a Level 1 damaging spell and then BatCycle the melee troops saving up to cast a Level 2 Kamikaze on them to make the BatCycle go faster.

Practice on that Human squad until it is easy (do both in both games so you get good practice).

For the other game with the Sprites, believe me, this is easier than the Lake Fairies as the extra Werewolves are mostly irrelevant (so long as you don't forget that you can't use your Vamps to kill them). You do have 9 Elves, so only worry about getting them Diverted (I guess if you Divert both the Elves and the Fauns, that is a bonus).

Position your Vamps in the leftmost spot so that the Sprites and Werewolves go the right (your left) path. You need to cast at least 2 Kamikazes on the Sprites and Werewolves (that are closest). You'll eventually work your way away from them on the right side, switching to Bats to escape. On round 3 you'll have to work on the Elves with Poison Skull Level 2, but be sure to save enough Mana to cast another Kamikaze on the last stack of Werewolves (if you can cast a third Kamikaze on them on round 3 instead of Poison Skulling the Elves do it, but you'll just have to see how it goes).

What makes both of these fights difficult is that the 9 Elves can Double Shot kill (barely) one of your Vamps on round one. If the above does not work, you'll have to Poison Skull the 9 Elves on round one so that they do not kill a Vamp on round two. But, this delays your Kamikaze's, although this worked for me with the Lake Fairies.

Sequence is everything for these fights as well as subtle positioning of your Vamps to get units to use more action points, you may have to experiment with who you put the Kamikaze on first. As a note, there are situations where Kamikaze will make troops skip their turn. Something to do with casting it on a higher initiative troop, so you may find that you need to do this thereby causing lower initiative troops (maybe just one) to skip their turn, but be careful because more likely than not, it causes troops to separate when you want them bunched up for that kaboom! I've seen this happen a lot, especially in the Basement when I'm trying to defeat those guys.

Good luck, maybe I'll try the other Kamikaze game later...

/C\/C\

MattCaspermeyer · #**200** 09-21-2014, 04:49 AM

Rejoice, my friends!

The Phoenix has arrived!

You can skip all the Catacombs fights (but be sure to get all those Crystals, though), skip the stack in front of the gate in Dragandor and just run to the Ore Cart. Get Level 4 Daert and let the fun ensue!

I finally got another elusive Phoenix scroll (4 of them!!!!) and am posting the save here. I actually got one with one of my Daert modded games, but never used it since I went Chaos in that game.

There is one note to be careful about with Phoenix, and that is the fact that the Bibliophile skill is bugged. If you pick it first, it will not give you the Crystal rebate. So make sure you pick it second at least, or last if you're really worried. I had forgotten about this and was short on Crystals when I was in front of the Inn and was like - doh! So I had to go back to my Portland save and pick Meditation first.

You should only need 8 and 13 Crystals for Phoenix Level 1 and 2 so if you see 10 and 15, then that means Bibliophile is not working if you picked it. You should find 18 Crystals (the max!) in the Catacombs, plus the 4 you start with gives you 22 with one left after you get Phoenix up to Level 2.

You'll be amazed how easy all the fights are, and you might only have to think a little bit in the Basement with the Snake stack. Otherwise, even the Whitehill fight will be super easy and you can actually relax and honestly reply to the Spirit of Darkness and say:

"Yes, it was not difficult."

/C\/C\