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#11
03-25-2009, 06:33 PM
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Two questions before i can help:
1. have you been using your dryads' abilities? Cause they certainly shouldn't be around for their damage-doing skills 2. are you completely dead-set on using target and timeback? The usual solution to a strategy not being as effective as it used to be is to switch tactics. As for the sprites vs. lake fairies argument: Lake fairies (known henceforth here as L) have 7 leadership, sprites (S) have 8. This means that if both stacks are equal, you will have 14.28% more L than S. With 20000 leadership you would have 2500 S, 2857 L Let's do some damage math. Assuming the ideal enemy, who has no defence and no resistances and a hero with no attack, S 5666 avg damage, L 4714 avg damage. This is based on the average damage for each creature (S is 2 (avg of 1-3), L is 1.5 (avg of 1-2)) and the fact than each point of attack over defence adds 3.33% damage (S has 4 att, L has 3). No, assuming that the hero has equipped both +1 damage items: S 22666 avg damage, L 10999 avg damage. This is based on the new figures for average damage (S is 4 (avg of 3-5), L is 3.5 (avg of 3-4)). Clearly, S does more damage despite the slightly higher leadership cost. Other stats: S has 33.333% more health (S has 8, L has 6). So the 20000 leadership stack from above have this much health: S 20000, 17142. Again, Sprites have the lead. The only ways that L is better is init and speed, having one more of each compared to S ( L 6 init/5 speed, S 5 init/4 speed), in defence, having one more point (S has 2, L has 3) and is resistance, not having the -50% fire resistance that S has. But just keep S away from fire units (or use timeback to get all losses back) and S comes out ahead by a huge margin. Yes, Sprites are my favourite unit, why do you ask? 
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#12
03-25-2009, 07:46 PM
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Can you roughly figure my problem out or what could be a bit of help ? Having no zombie Rina, being too weak to get Xeona, having not even a chance to get to Dark Commander and/or Tolerance in the next 3-4 levels I only see the chance for She-fighters + neutral (morale-downer wise) units to make up for a striking army. But it all ends up melee-only :/ My choice of items is very limited, too. I have the sword of darkness (wanted it to be light, but fighting elves turns it around of course), the elven bow (which showed up being not much of a help even with 3 physical bow-using archers) and 2 sorts of dwarven hammers of which one is the quest reward of course and the other is the one with +3 atk and +3 atk for dwarves and several crap weapons providing lower values. P.S: after collecting tons of units and traveling around for 5 game days I am willing to reroll a warrior or mage, the real classes that can work with only one aspect but therefore to the full extend in opposite to being a lowie mage stuck with 1 cast per turn and with no spellpower, put into plate armor, receiving no extra attack or leadership, therefore getting a little more rage which is by far not enough to draw enough power out of the rage spirits. Ok, whining doesn't help, it's me not the class, that fails atm, I am honest with myself ^^ Last edited by Vulture; 03-25-2009 at 08:02 PM.
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#13
03-25-2009, 07:51 PM
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Ryastar,
I think you've made a math error here. The Sprites definitely do not do 22666 damage with the two items. They do 11333 damage, half of what you calculated. They essentially do nearly the same damage with the two items. However, there are two things that stack the odds more in favor of Lake Fairies. First, LF's have a higher critical hit change, 15% versus 10% base chance. The % also depends on rage, and changes differently for the two units. With full rage, I was getting around 15% for Sprites versus around 25% or so for Lake Fairies. (if I remember correctly, I'll check when I get a chance). This alone translates to more average damage for the LF's. Second, most unit's have some sort of resistance. Since having the two items gives you three types of damage (Magic, Poison, Fire), unless the enemy has equal resistance to all three types, the larger numbers of Lake Fairies means you're dealing more of the type of damage that bypasses the strongest resistances of the unit. So in practice, this leads to more damage output from the Lake Fairies too. I've played with both unit types in the same battle, and just hovering over enemies has (in the battles where I tried this) shown that Lake Fairies do better damage. The extra initiative and speed help too. The extra health is great for Sprites, but these are not units I want to be soaking up damage at all anyway. I use them more like hit and run or fast strike troops. I only bring them in harm's way if I can kill off nearby stacks, bring in a tank that will absorb the damage, or use Timeback. In general, I think the health of this troop is not that important to its use, as opposed to say, Demons. The Dispel ability of sprites may be great, but I've never used it, as good old killing seems to be a better use. Granted, to put all this in perspective, it's kind of like deciding between two troops that are almost identical in usefulness and power. It's up the user to decide on the minor differences between the two. I prefer the Lake Fairies actually for the higher initiative, speed, and not having to worry about fire damage as much, and not so much for minor differences in damage output, which for both are just enormous, which I think we can agree on. Last edited by jwallstone; 03-25-2009 at 08:02 PM.
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#14
03-25-2009, 07:52 PM
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 most units are slow so it's very easy, more problem with Beholder or Vamps but our hero is faster then any stack so it's achievable.
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#15
03-25-2009, 08:20 PM
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As I stated before, I can't get zombie Rina anymore. Do undeads make sense without her ?
And as well stated before, there were no ancient vamps in Marshan Swamp. I mentioned Castle Kormag and I said I cleared every tomb and sacrophagus. And I said there were none with the Dwarven Necromancer in Ardent's Peaks. As for the pull back and turn tactics I am used to it. If not so I wouldn't have explored and grabbed every item and shop in Demonis and Ellinia without a fight. The problem about lotd is that the hero guy is at the very start. Only like half a screen away from the portal on the slim path. With the Portal in my back I can't drag anything anywhere I suppose. I drew his attention by mistake and escaped though the exit which animates slowly what gave him the chance to stand directly next to me and I'm afraid he is now directly in front of the Portal when I return. Bu I'll try, maybe he is reset now. Last edited by Vulture; 03-25-2009 at 08:27 PM.
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#16
03-25-2009, 09:46 PM
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Little update from my side here. Hero was reset and I could go through the land of the dead. Managed to find available troops: Blackies (+Eggs), Ancient Vamps and Black Knights. Am still angry about myself not having picked up tolerance and dark commander on my way to this point and about having cured Rina giving out the magic formula to Hake :/
Yet I don't know how to put a team together that can take and deal likewise on a decent level 
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#18
03-26-2009, 12:09 AM
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Yes, for sure this is what I will be doing, too. I see myself a few months from now posting about impossible no-buy-no-loss-playthroughs with no-nukes mages ^^. If I like a game - and frankly I DO like KB:TL - I always play it really intensively over and over.
Provided the new creatures I might go with Demons, Blackies, Skellie Archers, Necros and Ancient Vamps. Using Demon retaliation,target, timeback vamps target w/ Blackies nuking lines and dragon arrow skellies. Dunno if this works out w/o Rina and Dark Commander though ? Can someone please say yes or no please ?
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#19
03-26-2009, 12:53 AM
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Total bonus from zombie wife and DC is +1 speed (useful for every undead unit) +3 initiative (VERY useful when fighting dragons, allows archers to move before any dragon) and +7 attack (this is huge especially for a mage). I would say it would work without Rina (yes I like the demon wife double weapon slot
) but Dark Commander has a bonus too big to skip.
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#20
03-26-2009, 01:56 AM
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@jwallstone. Yeah I did make a math error, at some point in there a two crept in as a multiplier, I'm not sure how. Thank you for keeping me honest. Agreed then, that the difference between them when both +damage items are in use is small (though sprites are still on top!), Vulture doesn't have those, and Sprites are clearly superior when those items are not in use. My problem here is my mage game where I used both S and L and found that S was way more effective (no whip or daggar) is waaaaaaaay more recent than my last warrior game where i used both WITH the whip and daggar, so I bow to your more recent experience. P.S. where are you getting those critical strike figures? I have never noticed that stat in-game.
@Vulture. Ok, I am starting to figure out what is going on here. 1. you have no ranged troops in your army. Range units are the best way to minimize losses, as I saw somewhere "distance is the only armor I need". A dead enemy doesn't do any damage (not counting the UNdead, which isn't what I am talking about). A key thing for you is to get yourself some range units. Two stacks is usually enough, and sometimes three, though by the end of the game, you do need a majority of melee troops. I would recommend hunters and elves. Yes, their damage is not as high, but this is compensated for by their lower likelihood of being in danger and therefore their ability to do damage and not receive any in return. 2. Use your abilities better. THe primary one I want to talk about is lullaby. This is perhaps the most powerful ability in the game, and you have been treating it like a small thing of little interest. With lullaby you can ensure that all non-mind immune level 1-3 enemy stacks are out of the battle for the first two turns or more (more if you are willing to use a spell to extend that). The other important dryad ability is summon thorns, but more about that a little later. 3. Change your use of timeback. They way you have been using it is to replenish the number of your tank stack after it has been damaged ie. the stack that dies the least. I use timeback on the unit that dies the most, namely sprites, at least how I use them. They are my primary strike troops. This is due to the way the AI works. It usually chooses its target based on two factors: 1. whatever is closest. 2. whatever stack will be damaged the most by its attack. I take advantage of this by moving my sprites right up into their faces. I send them after whichever troop is most likely to be able to do damage to my other troops, and they will heavily damage if not kill it. That troop is now most likely to go after my sprites without any encouragement, and the other enemies are as well. By presenting my sprites up there as a target, they end up taking most of the damage. Right before the end of turn two, all that damage is neutralized by timeback. By this time, my range unit should have decimated much of their troops with support from no-retal units like lake fairies (send them in at the end of turn one, and then out again at the beginning of turn two, though be sure to leave one movement so you can cast timeback). Also towards the end of turn two, your dryads swoop in and summon some thorns and then swoop out next turn. These thorns then replace the sprites as the focus of enemy attacks, and you don't care if they die. 4. Get your basic stats higher. Most of your stats should end up soming from items. Try to get your attack and int up to between 15 and 20. Defense is thew least useful of the three stats, so change some items around. Go looking for better ones if you have to. There should be some around. Do you have a wife? Does she have kids? If you answered no to the first, get one. Even if her innate bonus sucks you still have four more slots for items. Don't have kids. Most of them are useless and the item slot they fill is more valuable. The only kids that are useful as the ones that give % bonuses to leadership, att, int, or mana or the ones that give +5 to any of the three primary stats (and maybe a few others, I forget), but these are few and far between. IF your current wife has kids and they aren't the good kind, spend as much of your money as possible, divorce her, and marry someone else. With these suggestions, there is absolutely no reason why you should take any losses from that fight you decribed. 3 stacks of 300-500 sprites or lake fairies each, 2 stacks of 10-23 ents, 3 stacks of 3-7 ancient ents, 2 stacks of 50 unicorns, 1 stack 8 Giants and one stack of 60 random lvl 3s. Clearly there should be only one stack that causes real losses with a good application of strategy. That is the giants because they deal area damage to all your ground troops. This makes them THE early target for killing. 8 of them is 7200 hp. One sprite/lake fairy hit and sniping from your ranged units and possibly a rage spirit move or a spell like helplessness and they should be dead or practically so. Your dryads will put everything but the ents and unicorns to sleep. The ent's ranged bee attack has a range of only three squares as far as I have noticed, so they should end up shooting at your sprites. The unicorns will also attack your sprites and suffer retaliation. Your lake fairies (which waited at the beginning of the turn) zip in and damage either the ents or the unicorns, the latter have more mobility, so i choose them to be the first to go. Turn 2 lake fairies move back out of range but keeps one movement point. Sprites attack the unicorns. Dryads wait. Range units snipe. Normal ents probably use run to move and attack the sprites. Ancient ents do whatever. Level 1-3 units stop snoring (you can put them back to sleep next turn using a phantomed stack of dryads if you want). Dryads move forward and summon. Timeback on Sprites. From here strategy should be fairly obvious: stay out of the way of the ents' bee attack, snipe with range units, hit and run with lake fairies and sprites. Summon more thorns with the thorns you summoned in the first place. OWN! Yours lengthfully, Ryastar
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