The best (accidental) moves you can make... :)

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by Untamo

I once trained to make it at will... but in the heat of combat, not a chance .. More of an aerobatic trick for me ... Would be of course an effective maneuver in scissors etc... if I just could make it

I think, to would be a nice evasive maneuver, a half snaproll and then diving down like a split-S, as also seen in that video. Its the fastest way to lay your plan on the back. And from the sight of your opponent behind you, it brings you imidiatly out of the line of fire - contrary to a simple roll.

[K_Freddie]

Would this be acceptable ??
(Note: No rudder pedals)

[Luno13]

Not bad, but compare it to the footage. That snap roll was slower, the aircraft was wallowing about the whole time, and it ended the maneuver much lower than when it started.

I'm sure you're a good sim-pilot, K_Freddie, but there's nothing for you to prove. There's no way anyone is going to pull off a proper snap roll in Il-2. The game just won't allow it, because it simplifies things too much.

[K_Freddie]

As I mentioned, with rudder pedals (more precise control) one can get very close to that film clip.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

I think, to would be a nice evasive maneuver, a half snaproll and then diving down like a split-S, as also seen in that video. Its the fastest way to lay your plan on the back. And from the sight of your opponent behind you, it brings you imidiatly out of the line of fire - contrary to a simple roll.

Yep. I think that's part of the reason that people complain about the FM of planes in the game which were known for their roll rate, such as the Fw-190 or the P-47.

Unless you have rudder pedals and a lot of practice flying them, you can never really get the most out of these planes, because you can never use the plane's roll rate to its fullest. I speak from (lack of) experience!

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Luno13

There's no way anyone is going to pull off a proper snap roll in Il-2. The game just won't allow it, because it simplifies things too much.

I'd ask the opinions of these guys first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjlAB...yer_detailpage

First, note slow snap roll and split-S by the flight at 0:33. Next, note the slow barrel rolls at 0:45. Next highlight is the 4-plane slow roll at 1:29. Then the snap roll at 1:39. Lots of very pretty, well-done snap rolls and slow barrel rolls starting at about 2:48 on the film, followed by an amazing two-plane end-over-end stall and recovery at 3:04. They have virtual flying skills which make me weep with envy.

Now, if the fighting Woodpeckers, or some of the other really dedicated IL2 virtual acrobatics squadrons, say you can't do some aerobatic maneuver in the game, I'll believe them. Otherwise, not so much . . .

[Luno13]

An aileron roll and a snap roll are two totally different things. Everything you pointed out in the video is an aileron roll.

A snap roll involves a rapid pitch-up and copious input of rudder to force one wing into a stall. The asymmetric lift quickens the roll (hence "snap roll" - it happens in a snap).

An aileron roll, despite the name, involves all three control axes (ailerons, elevator, and rudder) in order to keep the airplane traveling at a constant altitude and heading. Aileron rolls are easy to perform, but VERY hard to do as well as in that video.

That flip in the P-38, though cool, has nothing to do with snap rolls.

But those guys are great pilots, yes. In fact, the best I've ever seen in Il-2, thanks for sharing!

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Indeed, Luno is right, there are no snaprolls in that (otherwise impressive) vid.
Aileron- and barrel rolls are both quite easy to do in IL-2.

[K_Freddie]

In the quest for 'snap roll' perfection, here's an improved version.
As I'm using a button for rudder pedals so there is a slight delay in a/c reaction which I tried to synchronise with the elevator.

This little roll does not deviate more than about 75ft. but with proper rudder pedals one can do this on the fly. I know, as I've done it a gazillion times in a FW with my pre-working rudder pedals

Another thing to point out is that that video looks like it was taken at about 10000 ft altitude where the air is thinner (not much more than this as lack of oxygen will make the pilot 'happy'). So I set this test at 3000m with results getting really tight
This about my 10th snap in the KI43 (never flown it before)

[K_Freddie]

Done it... Not perfect (cannot expect it to be) but the Observer plane gave the impression that one lost a lot of height (as it follows you up and down) - not so much in this clip.

Who said anything was impossible with IL2

I've put these into video, as I'm not going to give away 'secrets' in the tracks. Not that it's a big secret though - practise a bit