109 elevator trim

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Sven

There you go, it was used frequently according to this fighter pilot!

True, as it should be to ease and neutralize forces on the stick (which we don't really have on our plastic joysticks). Reading a bit more about Finnish pilots, while you mention it, elevator trim was extremely important - remember the story of this pilot who got himself almost killed because he forgot to trim his plane correctly (G-2) before entering the dive. The response was nowhere as fast and this should be modelled in the sim. Same for Spitfires / Hurricanes, of course...

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 335th_GRAthos

...or just learn to fly

Actually this has nothing to do with the hardware.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Osprey thinks poeple are using them in combat.

Ive never heard of anyone doing this.

Many pilots are using it. So many actually that you won't be competetive if you're not imo.

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

The trim is so rough and over responsive If you where using it in combat it would throw your aim off.

Exactly, over responsive. It is certainly not throwing your aim off, it is helping you a big deal actually if you know how to control it. It is not too difficult to get hang of it tbh.

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Why dont you test it out for yourself? You will see how obsurd an idea it is.

Oh yes, I tested it a lot Farber. Osprey is spot on.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I believe the issue is the speed of response of the trim control, especially on the 109. The RAF fighters have got the same problem in the sim, but the elevator trim was much easier to operate in real life.

It was indeed possible to operate the Emils trim wheel in combat and many pilots did it, obviously, it was normal part of flying and fighting, but:

The point is that the wheel in the sim is nothing like the real thing. The design of the 2 wheels stuck together was to turn them both in order to compensate for the nose-down tendency of the aircraft with the landing flaps being deployed. (This is also a bug in the sim as with 'octopus effect' switched on, you can't operate one while the other is being used). Pilot was turning both wheels with his left hand simultanously.

With elevator trim assigned to an joystick axis, you will be able to get full effect of the trim within split of a second whereby it took much longer in real life and the response was nowhere as swift. Give it a shot, you'll see. With this 'exploit', the 109 is way too manoeverable and you're actually winning turnfights with Hurricanes and you'll be able to hit Spitfires breaking hard while diving on them full speed. I fly all planes in game and I find this a severe issue, just like these nose ups with flaps down and other sci-fi physics.

If in fact there was 5 revolutions for full travel, then the pilot was only limited to his turning speed of the wheel...about 2-3 seconds for full travel I estimate. Not that any pilot would adjust to full travel, and so time decreases depending on revolutions turned, because of the mechanical nature, and so any turning would provide some type of immediate results..

[Flanker35M]

S!

Robo, I would be careful before spewing assumptions like yours as truth. The elevator trim and landing flaps were separated systems altogether in Bf109. The trim was not tied to flaps to automatically adjust trim when flaps were cranked or flaps did not move if trim was applied. Both things were done separately by the pilot.

This "cheat trim" issue was cried out loud in original IL2 too, but applied to ALL planes, not only Bf109. Sure it was a bit sensitive in beta at least but much less so in later versions. Much better in CoD. And also you can check in CoD how it works, no matter how fast you move the assigned trim axle it does NOT move the trim wheel in game(cockpit) any faster and applies to Spits/Hurries as well. So there goes the theory of "cheat trim".

Maybe people should dig into the issue more than just vent in anger of something that is not there. IF there would be issues in ANY of the planes regarding the trim, for example, then Luthier and his team should fix it..regardless it being a red or blue plane as many want to categorize. Do not scream for simulation if the only way of simulation you want suits your own needs/agendas/whatever IMHO.

I can tell that I never turn in the Bf109E with Spitfire or Hurricane. NEVER. Maybe 45deg or so but after that I know I am toast as they WILL get on my 6 and blow me out of the sky. Energy is life!

I think Luthier and Co should address the FM/DM after the performance patch to pave way to an even better sequel where the issues are already squashed or much less prominent. Agree?

[Al Schlageter]

It would take longer than that as he could only move the wheel maybe a 1/4 > 1/3 turn for each grab of the wheel. That would be 20+ grabs.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

It would take longer than that as he could only move the wheel maybe a 1/4 > 1/3 turn for each grab of the wheel. That would be 20+ grabs.

I just can't imagine a pilot adjusting more than a very few degrees at a time

[Flanker35M]

S!

Al Schlageter, and with what you do you back up this that the trim wheel could be moved only a small amount at time? Been in a Bf109 to test it? I have been and can say you can move it quite easily more than 1/3-1/4 at a time

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by SlipBall

If in fact there was 5 revolutions for full travel, then the pilot was only limited to his turning speed of the wheel...about 2-3 seconds for full travel I estimate. Not that any pilot would adjust to full travel, and so time decreases depending on revolutions turned.

Ok, so you're saying it is ok as it is now?

I'd like to see how you spin that wheel 5 turns in 2-3 seconds.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!Robo, I would be careful before spewing assumptions like yours as truth. The elevator trim and landing flaps were separated systems altogether in Bf109. The trim was not tied to flaps to automatically adjust trim when flaps were cranked or flaps did not move if trim was applied. Both things were done separately by the pilot.

I never stated they were interconnected in any way.

I only stated that the wheels were placed and designed as they were so the pilot could compensate for nose-down pitch when deploying the landing flaps by spinning both wheels at once.