Fulqrum Publishing Home   |   Register   |   Today Posts   |   Members   |   UserCP   |   Calendar   |   Search   |   FAQ

Go Back   Official Fulqrum Publishing forum > Fulqrum Publishing > IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover

IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-03-2012, 03:13 PM
ACE-OF-ACES's Avatar
ACE-OF-ACES ACE-OF-ACES is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NM
Posts: 2,248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvrdi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES View Post
As many have been saying.. Alot of the CoD issues can be cured by simply upgrading the hardware!
no shhh...
Tvrdi.. I know the fact that a better video card and correctly configured PC goes against everything you and the rest of the nay-sayers would have people belive.. That being that CoD does not work for anyone.. But the fact remains that there are plenty of posts in this forum of people who are having no problems with the FPS or CTD.. And in light of your response of 'shhh' to counter that fact only highlights it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvrdi View Post
Badly optimised software needs cutting edge hardware to work decently. That is when the effects are not near (in CLODs case).
Now your getting it!! So it appears that you actually do agree with me! Better late than never! S!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvrdi View Post
Properly optimised software willl work well, even on "mid range rigs".
Now you getting it!! So you do understand why 1C is taking the time to optimize the code! This is a big step forward for you Tvrdi! You have come a long way in just two posts! Keep up the good work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvrdi View Post
I have an ace-like question for you: "Do you think ROF is not a cutting edge software (whatever that means)? Because it works damn good even on low-mid rigs....
So your baseline is RoF?

That explains a lot about your current and past statements!!

Allow me to explain why your comparsion is in error

1) Apparently you are un-aware of the fact that RoF is a DX9 program.. And that the DX9 API has been around for some time now, which means there are a lot of experienced DX9 programers to choose from and thus easier to program the game. Where as CoD is a DX10 program that uses the DX11 API.. The DX11 API is new, and very different from previous DX APIs, thus the DX11 API is not as well understood as DX9, mater of fact Microsoft is still working out some of the bugs in it, which all means there are less experienced DX11 programers to choose from and thus harder to programer the game.

2) Apparently you are un-aware and or don't remember what RoF was like when it first came out.. RoF like CoD was not a bugless sim when it was released back in 2009.. It took Neoqb years to get RoF into the state it is today.. And during that time Neoqb gout bought out by 777 studios! So, imho it is disingenuous of you to compare CoD which has been out for less than a year to a game that has been out for nearly 3 years. And try to remember that RoF has a near constant cash flow due to charging for add ones!! Where as CoD does not! Currently the only CoD can generate more development money is to produce a sequel/addon or find someone willing to invest in the product. Which explains why CoD is allready working on a sequal

So now that you are up to speed on RoF I hope you can understand why RoF works so well on lower end systems.. i.e. RoF has had more time and more money to optimize the code and RoF is still a DX9 game thus unless they upgrade to the DX11 API you will never see the DX11 features in RoF that we are soon to see in CoD.. Now 1C could have done the same as Neoqb.. It would have been easier to do.. But as we are now seeing.. 1C has had a much bigger vision for this game engine than Neoqb had for RoF
__________________
Theres a reason for instrumenting a plane for test..
That being a pilots's 'perception' of what is going on can be very different from what is 'actually' going on.

Last edited by ACE-OF-ACES; 03-03-2012 at 03:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-03-2012, 04:46 PM
Tvrdi
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES View Post
2) Apparently you are un-aware and or don't remember what RoF was like when it first came out.. RoF like CoD was not a bugless sim when it was released back in 2009.. It took Neoqb years to get RoF into the state it is today.. And during that time Neoqb gout bought out by 777 studios! So, imho it is disingenuous of you to compare CoD which has been out for less than a year to a game that has been out for nearly 3 years. And try to remember that RoF has a near constant cash flow due to charging for add ones!! Where as CoD does not! Currently the only CoD can generate more development money is to produce a sequel/addon or find someone willing to invest in the product. Which explains why CoD is allready working on a sequal

So now that you are up to speed on RoF I hope you can understand why RoF works so well on lower end systems.. i.e. RoF has had more time and more money to optimize the code and RoF is still a DX9 game thus unless they upgrade to the DX11 API you will never see the DX11 features in RoF that we are soon to see in CoD.. Now 1C could have done the same as Neoqb.. It would have been easier to do.. But as we are now seeing.. 1C has had a much bigger vision for this game engine than Neoqb had for RoF
My superhero. Im not in ROF boat. I gave em hard time when deserved. I know its DX9 but it looks very nice dont you think? Yes it had problems with stutters (on some rigs) but they solved that in less than a year (do-you-copy?) ROF still has some very advanced features which CLOD doesnt, like dynamic cloud shadows, realistic sun glare, realistic rain drops, much better DOT system (cant cheat with lower res), posibility to extinguish engine fire in dive and so many things which i cant rem right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataros View Post
This engine was not developed for resolutions higher than 1920x1080. Let's hope a patch can help or we have to wait till 2013-2015 videocards for extreme (higher than fullHD) res. Nothing comes for free. Resolution neither.Clouds, weather and landscape improvements in BoM will put new hardware to its knees again on extreme resolutions. The devs optimise for mainstream resolution only because further optimisation for extreme resolutions is too costly in terms of resources used and image quality hit.Solution is to use mainstream resolution or buy a new top video card every 6 - 12 months if you are rich. Sims are more demanding than any shooters due to high visibility distances and modelling detail.
Ataros, LOL, 1920x1200 isnt an insane resolution in 21st century...anyways I didnt gain much going from this to 1680x1050....I tried that too, I was a beta tester so I know all the tricks...

Why is so hard for you to admit what devs admit...its a bad, bad code...period

Last edited by Tvrdi; 03-03-2012 at 04:52 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-03-2012, 05:02 PM
ACE-OF-ACES's Avatar
ACE-OF-ACES ACE-OF-ACES is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NM
Posts: 2,248
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvrdi View Post
My superhero.
Ah shucks.. Well super is a bit much IMHO.. But I am glad to hear you agree with me just the same! S!
__________________
Theres a reason for instrumenting a plane for test..
That being a pilots's 'perception' of what is going on can be very different from what is 'actually' going on.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-03-2012, 06:03 PM
ATAG_Bliss ATAG_Bliss is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvrdi View Post
My superhero. Im not in ROF boat. I gave em hard time when deserved. I know its DX9 but it looks very nice dont you think? Yes it had problems with stutters (on some rigs) but they solved that in less than a year (do-you-copy?) ROF still has some very advanced features which CLOD doesnt, like dynamic cloud shadows, realistic sun glare, realistic rain drops, much better DOT system (cant cheat with lower res), posibility to extinguish engine fire in dive and so many things which i cant rem right now.
Now now tvrdi, it took ROF 2 years to fix the CTD online. I'm sure you remember the coined word "I've been roffed" where you'd randomly lose 5-6 guys every single time a AI character spawned due to a rof.exe crash. I'm sure you also realize it took ROF 2.5 years before the 1st plane had an FM review as well? The sun in ROF looks much less realistic than it does in Cliffs to me btw. Cliffs also had moving clouds, dynamic cloud shadows, and clouds that even changed shape at release. ROF didn't have moving clouds till after Cliffs did and they still don't change shape. They are static objects that move across the sky, while in cliffs the clouds slowly change shape, form, appear, and dissipate.

See here:

And don't go into bad code. Of course there's people that like different things and your mileage on certain things may vary, but there's isn't a flight sim out there that has the game engine close to anything like IL2 (new or old). You couldn't place couple 100 big objects in a row in a mission in a row in ROF and fly it, (actually the mission probably wouldn't even load - it would error out) let alone fly it smoothly. Now this isn't to say that there are some obvious performance problems with cliffs as it stands right now. But as a fiddler in the FMB, I can go to town and click away and build w/e I want and the game doesn't care. I think squirrel (when screwing around testing this) placed 20,000 3d trenches along England, (basically until his finger got tired) then flew next to them in amazement.

The point is, once the performance is all sorted, what you are left with is a game engine similar to the old IL2 - which is unsurpassed by any other sim ever made. It's sad to some (not me) that these guys don't really work on the SP campaigns or any of that jazz, but it's because if you want one they'll give you all the tools to make it however complex and immersive you like. That's why you can code anything into a mission that's part of MS's NET framework, amongst a million other possibilities. As a fiddler or a person that gets into the "guts" of these games, there's literally no comparison. Not at all.

It's similar to walking into a house that's gorgeous with all this fancy furniture, then finding out while you can walk around, you can't touch anything. Where as IL2COD is like walking into an unorganized messy house, then realizing that you can do w/e you want in there. The 1st scenario is all bright and flashy at 1st, but then you realize just how limited you are in the scope of things. While the 2nd, your imagination is the limit.

Ask anyone is ROF, and I mean anyone, to try and make a map like this to race online. Then, if you take the time to place just 1/10 of the amount of objects and see what happens when you load the mission, you'll see just where I'm coming from. This is a map someone hosts from their home pc btw. This isn't SP.



And btw, every single thing you see in the map besides the water is an object in the FMB. (not the grey ground texture though) Anything from the mountains, the ramps, to well, everything is there to play with and do w/e you like. Take a gander at the ME in ROF and you'll probably go. ..."oh"

With that said, ROF is good at what is does. It's a nice dog fight simulator, but without the ability to even have a trench as an object in it's mission editor (kinda a big thing in WWI wouldn't you think?) or the ability to place more than a couple hundred objects in a MP mission without the mission going kaput, that's all it will ever be. In IL2, the sky is the limit, once the base engine is all sorted.

So please do watch and read. This type of stuff is exactly why I stand in line with my pom poms eagerly awaiting for what's next.
__________________

ATAG Forums + Stats

Last edited by ATAG_Bliss; 03-03-2012 at 06:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-03-2012, 09:44 PM
Ataros Ataros is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: USSR
Posts: 2,439
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tvrdi View Post
Ataros, LOL, 1920x1200 isnt an insane resolution in 21st century...anyways I didnt gain much going from this to 1680x1050....I tried that too, I was a beta tester so I know all the tricks...

Why is so hard for you to admit what devs admit...its a bad, bad code...period
You may not trust me but you will see that you need a new top video card when new clouds and weather are introduced even with improved engine. Then you will say that it is bad code again.

The truth is you can never have cheap, immediate and quality (including high resolution and sim detail level) solution. You always have to pay more, to wait more or to compromise on quality (resolution) or play more simple arcade games like BF3. It is up to you to decide if you want to take responsibility for your PC performance. It is easier to blame others of cause but it would not increase FPS for you unlike one of above compromises.

Let's wait for the new weather and see. I bet you will not be able to run it in 1920x1200. The devs are struggling to make the game work on mainstream resolutions which are fullHD now I believe but not higher.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-03-2012, 08:53 AM
MACADEMIC MACADEMIC is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 808
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kankkis View Post
Holy moses what difference was changing my 5970 to 7970, allmost same cards in performance in 3Dmark 2011 but i have zero stutter now, all max and it's really enjoyable sim.

1gig to 3gig i think make biggest improvement, and no crossfire anymore.

Wonderful SIM.

Kankkis
What are your settings?

MAC
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-03-2012, 09:04 AM
Kankkis Kankkis is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Turku, Finland
Posts: 584
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACADEMIC View Post
What are your settings?

MAC
All maxed exept, no SSAO and textures high not orginal.

With my old overclocked 5970 i got 3dmark 2011 8800points, with overclocked 7970 i got 8900points, so no difference there but in Clod that is different game now, not stutteringfest anymore.

Constant 60fps with vsync, ok not maybe on rooftops on London. Happy Clod player here now, i just love it now, really nice to fly at evening and look at those exhaustpipes from cockpit.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-03-2012, 09:13 AM
Kankkis Kankkis is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Turku, Finland
Posts: 584
Default





realtimerecording, sry no CEM there now, back in the game for long time

Actually my first game to test with new GPU

And believe me it looked really much better on my monitor than that poorquality video When i record then my FPS is constant 30FPS.

Kankkis

Last edited by Kankkis; 03-03-2012 at 11:08 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-05-2012, 03:36 AM
Codex Codex is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hoppers Crossing, Vic, Australia
Posts: 624
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kankkis View Post
Holy moses what difference was changing my 5970 to 7970, allmost same cards in performance in 3Dmark 2011 but i have zero stutter now, all max and it's really enjoyable sim.

1gig to 3gig i think make biggest improvement, and no crossfire anymore.

Wonderful SIM.

Kankkis
That's it ... I'm heading off to the local PC shop after work and I'm going to getz me a new card. I'm sick of Crossfire and stutters.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-05-2012, 08:06 AM
Flanker35M Flanker35M is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 1,806
Default

S!

Codex..you will not regret it! This 7970HD munches games for snack and seems AMD already has a refresh ready when Kepler comes. Good times for us. And fanboism is of no use, both brands do not give a rats booty for brown nosing..all they want is our hard earned money
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 Fulqrum Publishing. All rights reserved.