What do you search in a combat flight sim?

[Bounder!]

The reason I bought the original IL-2 series many years ago was that I'd heard through friends and games magazines that it was the most realistic ww2 flight simulator available. Ultimately that's what I want in a flight sim, the most realistic and historically accurate simulation of what it was like to fly and fight in and against the different kites of ww2.

So for me the highest priority is how well every plane is modeled and how close it represents flying the real one both in terms of performance and aircraft management. There's no point having an accurate Spitfire if the 109 model is messed up and vice versa. Combat modelling is also essential, ballistic modelling and detailed damage models, accurate deterioration of my planes flight model through engine mismanagement or as it's slowly turned to swiss cheese. Environmental modelling is good - turbulence, different weather conditions, the suns glare etc etc all help to build immersion.

Historical accuracy is everything to me in a ww2 flight sim and my belief that I'm playing the most advanced and accurate simulation is key to my enjoyment.

[ParaB]

Realism, immersion and atmosphere.

[raaaid]

healthy compettition miss comabts that ended in a salute

[Skoshi Tiger]

Immersion would be the my highest priority. Sure graphics and flight models and historical realism, AI and all the rest need to be 'good enough' but I'ld rather lower the visual settings to allow a more diverse environment.

A lot of the immersion comes from mission design, and I have a great deal of respect for the members of the community that are making missions and running the multiplayer servers. One of the biggest priorities must a set of user documents to help these guys out with their scripting and mission creation. When you think what these guys have done without the detailed documentation, imagine what they will be able to do when they have access to all the relevant information!

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by Bounder!

The reason I bought the original IL-2 series many years ago was that I'd heard through friends and games magazines that it was the most realistic ww2 flight simulator available. Ultimately that's what I want in a flight sim, the most realistic and historically accurate simulation of what it was like to fly and fight in and against the different kites of ww2.

So for me the highest priority is how well every plane is modeled and how close it represents flying the real one both in terms of performance and aircraft management. There's no point having an accurate Spitfire if the 109 model is messed up and vice versa. Combat modelling is also essential, ballistic modelling and detailed damage models, accurate deterioration of my planes flight model through engine mismanagement or as it's slowly turned to swiss cheese. Environmental modelling is good - turbulence, different weather conditions, the suns glare etc etc all help to build immersion.

Historical accuracy is everything to me in a ww2 flight sim and my belief that I'm playing the most advanced and accurate simulation is key to my enjoyment.

+1

[Tchocky]

A well-built dynamic campaign. Scripted campaigns are for first-person-shooters.

Something that RB2 and TAW really got right.

[zakkandrachoff]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Thank to our mate Carguy I'm asking myself how much the community is divided about the priorities in a combat flight sim.

@Carguy: I've never imposed my thought to anyone... you can choose to ignore me or discuss the matter as people do in every message board. At least I've not imposed it like many here who claim CloD the best sim ever done forcing the disagreeing people to run away. Usually they don't ever take time to discuss in a constructive way, since when you criticize their toy it's like molesting their children...



Anyway these are my priority lists about a combat flight sim:

High priorities
- Flight model (it's a flight sim... every plane should fly almost like the real one)
- Virtual pilot simulation (fatigue management, visibility skill, G-forces, damage model)
- Damage models
- Weapon's historycal performance and calibration.
- Communications (between pilots and with ground control... think about calling the mechanic because of an issue during the engine startup, talking directly to the command for info, having the command that alert you of a plane seen by some civil observers on the coast)
- Sound engine
- Demanding management of the plane (not only engine management, but also belts, oxigen, gunsight's bulbs ect...)
- Atmospheric simulation (sun, clouds, haze.. maybe not visually perfect, but they must be there and must be VERY important for the pilot)

Low priorities
- Object 3D models
- 3D world graphics
- Visual effects
- Airbase life
- AI

Needless things
- Clickable cockpit
- Manual ammo belt management
- Interactive flak
- Dynamic weather
- Extreme weather like rain or storm
- City life (it's a war... why should bombed families turn on the light? Here in Italy if you turned on the light you were to be strafed)... no, cows are useless...
- Women between the pilot's arms


As you see graphics are low between my priorities... and both WoP and CloD are not passable to me: the former is limited in many aspect, the latter "could be" more complete but at the end is a pile of unfinished code.
By the way one of the most beautiful civil sims I've ever bought is Condor... Visually is ugly (old) but the feeling is great!

I hope it's clear now...

What about your priorities?

i want too, a very nice dynamic mission generator. (i am tired to use the full mission generator),
i want that the QMG surprise me in a nice mission, with low and very dispersed aircraft, not 3 squadrons of 4 aircraft each one.
is for that i like small battles in big complex zones, like Crimea, Odessa, Finland, Africa, and another places of the east front.
i don't like so much common zones, and big raids.

example: fly a rumanian 109E/B in Odessa, with a coupe of he112 and attack biplanes , and be attacked by ppolikartovs, but the entire map need to have small groups of planes at the same time, but i dont need to know about the other operations from my airforce and either the enemy airforfce.;. that is i like.

[pupo162]

i will sue your list and edit to my likes,


Anyway these are my priority lists about a combat flight sim:

High priorities
- Flight model (it's a flight sim... every plane should fly almost like the real one) - BINGO
- Damage models - strike 2
- Sound engine - meh, this is a priority yes, but i very usually play soundless anyway.
- Demanding management of the plane (not only engine management, but also belts, oxigen, gunsight's bulbs ect...) - yes yes and yes.
- Atmospheric simulation (sun, clouds, haze.. maybe not visually perfect, but they must be there and must be VERY important for the pilot)
- AI - OK, this is probably, in my opinion, your bigest miss. we wont ever get 100 guys flying in the same server online, and even if we do, it will turn soon into a airquake. AI can keep fill the gaps and an easy way around to have historical size fights.


Low priorities
- Object 3D models - yes, i will be seeing them from high above, no need for uber detail. 1946 was about balanced
- 3D world graphics - Low priority, but still a priority
- Visual effects - Low priority, but still a priority
- Airbase life
- Weapon's historycal performance and calibration. -mixed feelings
- Communications (between pilots and with ground control... think about calling the mechanic because of an issue during the engine startup, talking directly to the command for info, having the command that alert you of a plane seen by some civil observers on the coast) -Low priority, but still a priority

Needless things
- Clickable cockpit -this is not needless. but isnt a priority too. its done already and works fine. i like it, and saves A LOT of time setting up keys.
- Manual ammo belt management - mixed feelings
- Interactive flak - THIS! THIS! THIS!, please THIS!
- Dynamic weather -Welll.... no, i guess. not a priority, but not needless
- Extreme weather like rain or storm -Welll.... no, i guess. not a priority, but not needless
- City life (it's a war... why should bombed families turn on the light? Here in Italy if you turned on the light you were to be strafed)... no, cows are useless... - meh. some parked cars, and sandbags in loondon would make it look more life like. now it looks like a zoombie city. still, its not a priority,
- Women between the pilot's arms - KILLL HER!
- Virtual pilot simulation (fatigue management, visibility skill, G-forces, damage model) - Bingo!, i mean, dont you think staying in your pc for 4 hours playing isnt fatiguing enough?, and visibility skills come with time. noobs cant spoot anything in first weeks



Good thread, hope 1c pops in and sees waht we actually want.

[6S.Manu]

Wow! As I thought the term "combat flight sim" means different things for many of us. In the past I had another discussion about mods and how they splitted the IL2 community, claiming that this community was already splitted in many groups: the ones who search realism, the ones who only like to fly and the one who only like to fight... the presence of so different server (talking about difficulty settings) was a proof.

Immersion and realism are vague words: I still remember the post of some guys joking about how the "realism lovers" need to really die when the screen comes black.

So if think that also this to concepts should be clarified.

If the moderators allow me I'll open another thread with a rating system.

@pupo: the actual absence of fatigue permits pilots to sustain high G-forces for dozen of minutes (until they win/die)... it clearly affects realism IMO.

[csThor]

A realistically modeled planeset, a realistically modelled pool of relevant ground and naval objects which are being used to create an immersive and believable environment. Artillery that shells an area, tanks that are having it out with their opponents, truck columns with supplies ... A living, breathing world and not just the "stale" aspect of flying for the sake of flying ... with a campaign like the old Red Baron II.