Sure hope Oleg gets with the program

[nearmiss]

Don't make light of this. Two Russian bombers flew over a US Carrier the other day in a provocative manner. One did a fly over at abour 2,000 feet. Those kinds of behaviour are not good and are a bad sign of things to come.
I'm just hoping there will be no more incidents either way.

It's really all about politics isn't it? I mean we've had a great time on the Ubi boards and forums for the past 5+ years. Personally, I wouldn't want to alienenate myself with any readers. I have enjoyed reading other's opinions and how they think about the war and all. You could say, I just want to enjoy everyone and appreciate freedom to discuss things. I know we don't all see things the same way, but that is the cool part.

Someone kinda ragged on me above about being ignorant of the Russia role in the War. When we studied World History it was about the old world kinda stuff, not very much about WW2 and certainly nothing focused on Russia. WHen I was in college I took American History, and it naturally had more to do with things American. If I had been more into history of other countries it would certainly be different. Heck, like most students I took the required courses and took electives I was interested to take.

I don't know about "defensive missiles" in Poland, but I kinda got the idea it has more to do with protecting European countries from their own laid back attitudes of nuclear proliferation in Iran, Pakistan,etc. You make what you want about it, but Europeans ignoring Iran and Al Queda is a big mistake. The European appeasement strategy will not work long term with muslim extremists. Those dudes don't just hate Christians, they hate anyone that is not muslim. America has been taking care of Europe for 100+ years because of their own laid back attitudes about doing nothing.

If the Russia really believed America wanted to attack Russia why the heck didn't America do it after breaking the cold war. I'll tell you why, Americans don't want a war with Russia.

We wouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan right now if the extremists hadn't cost America billion of dollars and killed thousands of our people. People say the war is wrong, but they are ignoring the "FACT" extremists have and continue to kill American troops in Iraq. Americans are dying, and that's a fact. The extremists want to kill Americans and Iraq is their killing field.

Those extremists are not just Iraqi, they are from Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and all over the middle east. America has provided a venue for their murder, which is bad... but who is better able to deal with the carnage than Americas soldiers.

Regardless, I may have gotten off the side abit in this posting. I sure don't want issues with Russians who I've come think of as "FRIENDS". I enjoy the IL2 and appreciate the accomplishments of Oleg and Soviet aviation. I don't want to go back to "distrust the Russians" and other negative thinking.

Currently, I'm interested for Oleg to finish his new work so we can all enjoy it. I would hate it, if the product was locked out of American markets. Enemies don't have much patience for each other, nor do they do business.

its always been "We are good and right and they are all bad and wrong"....you must be retarded to believe in such things in 21st century...politics costs us too much lives here....the hell with that...btw, this is a sim forum...just a sim guys...

[Brain32]

Originally Posted by Crop-Duster

You have not heard?

They would be defending Europe even though Europe has not asked to be defended.

Last time Europe didn't ask, some small guy with funny mustaches took ownership of more than half of it...

Anyway guys you have Pilots lounge on ubi for such topics...
I really don't see how this fits in here...

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

Don't make light of this. Two Russian bombers flew over a US Carrier the other day in a provocative manner. One did a fly over at abour 2,000 feet. Those kinds of behaviour are not good and are a bad sign of things to come.
I'm just hoping there will be no more incidents either way.

It's really all about politics isn't it? I mean we've had a great time on the Ubi boards and forums for the past 5+ years. Personally, I wouldn't want to alienenate myself with any readers. I have enjoyed reading other's opinions and how they think about the war and all. You could say, I just want to enjoy everyone and appreciate freedom to discuss things. I know we don't all see things the same way, but that is the cool part.

Someone kinda ragged on me above about being ignorant of the Russia role in the War. When we studied World History it was about the old world kinda stuff, not very much about WW2 and certainly nothing focused on Russia. WHen I was in college I took American History, and it naturally had more to do with things American. If I had been more into history of other countries it would certainly be different. Heck, like most students I took the required courses and took electives I was interested to take.

I don't know about "defensive missiles" in Poland, but I kinda got the idea it has more to do with protecting European countries from their own laid back attitudes of nuclear proliferation in Iran, Pakistan,etc. You make what you want about it, but Europeans ignoring Iran and Al Queda is a big mistake. The European appeasement strategy will not work long term with muslim extremists. Those dudes don't just hate Christians, they hate anyone that is not muslim. America has been taking care of Europe for 100+ years because of their own laid back attitudes about doing nothing.

If the Russia really believed America wanted to attack Russia why the heck didn't America do it after breaking the cold war. I'll tell you why, Americans don't want a war with Russia.

We wouldn't be in Iraq or Afghanistan right now if the extremists hadn't cost America billion of dollars and killed thousands of our people. People say the war is wrong, but they are ignoring the "FACT" extremists have and continue to kill American troops in Iraq. Americans are dying, and that's a fact. The extremists want to kill Americans and Iraq is their killing field.

Those extremists are not just Iraqi, they are from Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and all over the middle east. America has provided a venue for their murder, which is bad... but who is better able to deal with the carnage than Americas soldiers.

Regardless, I may have gotten off the side abit in this posting. I sure don't want issues with Russians who I've come think of as "FRIENDS". I enjoy the IL2 and appreciate the accomplishments of Oleg and Soviet aviation. I don't want to go back to "distrust the Russians" and other negative thinking.

Currently, I'm interested for Oleg to finish his new work so we can all enjoy it. I would hate it, if the product was locked out of American markets. Enemies don't have much patience for each other, nor do they do business.

If the US concerns about extremist islam were troubling your administration so much, they would have done neither of the following:

1) Be allied with the countries that secretly fund these radicals (ie Saudi Arabia) while making up pretexts to attack non-democratic but nevertheless secular states like Iraq. If dictatorships bother them that much they shouldn't have installed so many of them in South America to begin with.

2) Create an environment for extremist islamic groups in the soft underbelly of Europe. Just so you know, both the Madrid and London bombings in recent years have been traced back to Bosnia and Kosovo.

It seems that radical Islam is bad when a close ally is threatened (ie Israel) but they don't really care when it happens on Russian soil or that of a traditional Russian ally, especially if it hinders the EU and Russia making energy deals because of the hotspot.

I'm not saying that anyone is innocent, i'm saying that everyone is guilty to an extent and that includes the US. And there's nothing that shows this more clearly than the western lack of consistency in their decisions. Sorry guys, but the king is naked.

As for the loss of life, it's sad no matter who it happens to. I don't care if he's a US soldier, a Palestinian boy, or an Iraqi insurgent (not all resistance in Iraq is fundamentalists, their country is occupied and they do what every free man would do). However, the "civilised" west thinks their lives are worth more and that's the foundation of all this. And my country is just as guilty as anyone else.

Just so you know, the terrorist attacks on US soil have claimed less civilian lives than the 70 day "humanitarian" bombing of Yugoslavia, but i remember all sorts of cheering going on back then for bombing people that have paid dearly in blood to back up the allies in both World Wars. There is a well documented case in WW2 of 600 downed airmen (mostly 15th AF) that were not only offered shelter in that country, but an airstrip was constructed and they were airlifted out during the course of a few days, all under risk of immense reprisals by the Wermacht.
Of course leaderships change, but if the US really were after a certain leader they could have assassinated/abducted him or bombed his residence unexpectedly and without going to war in '99. Instead, a leading USAF figure stated on a TV interview for a local documentary show that he wanted to "bomb that bridge the civilians were gathering on because they were defying our might and that's bad for our morale, but the French sadly vetoed it".

Sorry if i come across as overly anti-american, i'm not. I don't hate the people, but the truth is the truth and it's not only the politicians' fault, it's us who vote for them

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by Tvrdi

its always been "We are good and right and they are all bad and wrong"....you must be retarded to believe in such things in 21st century...politics costs us too much lives here....the hell with that...btw, this is a sim forum...just a sim guys...

Unfortunately that sentiment has always been the case, with ebbs and flows. Whats scares me is the bible belts (of all countries) are becoming stronger politically where that sentiment is very strong. All the world needs is countries lead by religious leaders with no tolerance of other peoples way of life. People havn't become any smarter so constantly repeating history is a cross we all have to bare.

[CrashBangWallop]

I wouldn’t get too freaked out about this. Here’s another, more measured report about the incident reminding us that international cooperation is still the name of the game here

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20080213/99111861.html

Russia is no longer communist, but a vibrantly capitalist state, with absolutely no reason or wish to revert to an ideological conflict.

I daresay that when Oleg is ready, BoB will be on your local game shelves as soon as he thinks it’s ready.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Chivas

Unfortunately that sentiment has always been the case, with ebbs and flows. Whats scares me is the bible belts (of all countries) are becoming stronger politically where that sentiment is very strong. All the world needs is countries lead by religious leaders with no tolerance of other peoples way of life. People havn't become any smarter so constantly repeating history is a cross we all have to bare.

Totally agree with this.

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by Chivas

Unfortunately that sentiment has always been the case, with ebbs and flows. Whats scares me is the bible belts (of all countries) are becoming stronger politically where that sentiment is very strong. All the world needs is countries lead by religious leaders with no tolerance of other peoples way of life. People havn't become any smarter so constantly repeating history is a cross we all have to bare.

You are scared of bible belts... The bible belt level of tolerance has always been to deal with those kinds of issues through legitimate channels. Sure a few preachers may make sermons against degenerate practices, but still they aren't advocating killing people.

Straight talk here. The American South is what you are talking about.

I live in Ameican and I watch TV. There is all manner of porn, adultery, drunkeness, drug abuse, murder, mayhem, anarchy, displayed and promoted constantly over television. San Francisco, Philadelphia, Palm Springs, Ca, New York City are over run with homosexuals.

The liberality in America is killing millions of babies each year in the name of personal freedom. The bible belt as you call it is nothing to be afraid of, if you want to fear something you'd better think about Radical Islam.

Lack of tolerance with words and testimony is nothing like tolerance where action is taken.

Radical Islam has absolutely NO tolerance, for any of the above.

It hasn't been too long ago we saw films of the Taliban killing a woman in a soccer stadium for adultery. Recently, the Saudi's wanted to flog a woman because she got raped. Radical islam is completely intolerant and makes the bible belt as you call it look like a Sunday school picnic.

If we had that kind of intolerance in America with that kind of mentality we'd have half the population of our women being murdered in the Superbowl for moral mis-behavior.

The spurious argument and attacks on the bible belt are just worthless diversions, because liberal thinkers want even more liberality in America. How much more do they want.. how much farther can it go. I'm sure it can be worse, because I just don't have my mind preoccupied with doing all the evil I can conjure up.

Americans are dying in Iraq, and it's not Iraqi doing the dirty work. If America is somehow able to actually create a free society in Iraq, just think how pervasive freedom will be in the rest of the middle east. The kings and despot leaders of middle east countries definitely don't want to wind up like Iran. They want to keep their elite positions of power over their people.

No muslim country leader in the middle east has anything to gain from a free Iraq, only the people do.

[robtek]

As once was said in that famous movie "Ferris day off" or something like that:
The Problem in this world are the ISM´s!!!
Like: NationalISM, CatolISM, NazISM, IslamISM, BaptISM, BuddhISM, ReligISM, FanatISM, CommunISM and so on and on and on....
Without the ISM´s there would be more peace in this world, i Think....

[Blackdog_kt]

Mate, you don't create a free Iraq by making it a killing ground for all sorts of different arab factions with you standing in the middle. You certainly don't create a free country anywhere by killing the people you're supposedly helping.

I live in a country where the boundaries between eastern and western lines of reasoning are pretty thin. I live close to these people you're upsetting, you're not. And if they get royally p***ed off and your guys are out of Iraq guess who they'll go for first...me, no matter if i've been tolerant to their different way of life since decades or even centuries. Why? Certainly not because they're muslims. I think it's because someone p***ed them off and left and now they have to vent their frustration somewhere.

As a citizen of a EU/Nato country i would kindly implore you pass this on to your leaders. Stop messing around in my hood, because when the going gets tough you'll just pack your bags and go and leave me to deal with your mess. Just like it happened in the Yugoslav wars, you were all up in arms about it and then you decided you want a different hotspot playground.

Guess who got left babysitting all those countries crawling with rogue nationalist factions? The EU. Now there's Afghanistan and Iraq and while we have no troops in the latter we do have a couple of hundred in Afghanistan but in non-combat jobs (mainly doctors and engineers). Now that it's getting out of hand there too you are asking me, who had no say in your decisions to get involved there in the first place, to risk my life for a flawed decision that your leaders made? Thanks but no thanks mate. Nobody fights other people's wars unless there's a suitable "villain" figure to make it their cause too. And i'm not convinced that the whole of the middle east is populated by extremists.

It's mostly populated by poor people ruled by guys that your administration puts in place, then discards them with a convenient excuse once they're spent. Poor people that are rightly annoyed (to put it mildly) at the so called "liberation" at gun point and the worst thing of all is that when it get's too hot your leadership tries to drag others in the fire. The war in the middle east is not a war against terror, it's a war to impose our way of life and our standards upon a vastly different culture, which only serves to ignite similar sentiments to the local population and make more of them susceptible to the very thing you're supposedly fighting in the first place...religious extremism. I'm not an atheist, but organised religion is not divine, it's a human organisation and as humans have flaws, so it does too. I believe in a higher power, but i don't believe in organised religion.

If you would allow me to generalise a bit for the sake of presenting an example, the reason a guy straps himself with TNT and blows himself up is because someone deprived him of every single reason to live so he can drive a 5.0 litre car. Religion is just a catalyst to that, not a cause.

To put in in a mathematical, "cold hard facts" type of context. Greece is less than a day from Yugoslavia and a couple of days from the Middle East. As a citizen of this country i have to accept a loss of state money to care for the refugee wave someone else is responsible for. I have to tolerate a rise of racism among the local authorities, because people lose their jobs to/get mugged/robbed by the starving refugees someone else sent packing. I have to lose even more state money, which is my own money actually, because the racist treatment that some of my idiot countrymen are exhibiting brings forth fines from the european human rights court. But if i look at the string of events and trace to the beginning, it's someone else who lit the fuse and he lives a few thousand miles away.
What's even better? The fact that i do all these things for him since i have no choice and his holier than thou ungrateful majesty sees fit to screw me over in every major aspect of international politics that have a bearing on my well being and still manage to call me an "ally" with a straight face.
And on top of all that, i have to die fighting for the people that caused all that?

This is the moderate view of US policies during the last couple of decades in Greece and it's also why recent polls show a 70% sympathy towards Russia in a EU/Nato country. The more extremist line of thought involves pelting the US embassy in Athens with anything ranging from coins and eggs to molotov cocktails. I don't condone it obviously, but i can certainly understand the frustration behind it.