The Northrop Grumman Issue.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Xilon, you should use the quote function, if you quote someone.

[JimmyBlonde]

Originally Posted by Artist

Sorry, wrong: In this case it's 1c and Maddox Games who will be sued and will pay dearly. And AFAIK there has even a contract been signed with Grumman.

So get modders to do it, call the thing the Grumman Gaylord and give it the crappiest FM ever.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Fighterace

So...what can we do anything about it? Or do we just have to suck it u and move on???

Basically.

There's no chance of their being significant political clout to strike this down at the high level and none of us are stinking rich (and I don't even live in the right country) enough to mount a legal challenge that would bring this down. They did the same thing to plastic model makers. I believe it was eventually struck down... but because there is presumably a legally binding agreement in place (I only know of it unofficially) there isn't anything to be done.

So... yep we have to suck it up and move along. It's a shame. But at least there are some other types of aircraft that we could have instead. It's not a substitute either but at least it's not a total dead end all around.

[Xilon_x]

but but icefire the airpplane for il-2 sturmovik 1946 are old 80 years ago is very very strange this legal action if i go in the american museum i loock the northrop grumman in free mode not censure not secret is very strange america is a free nation whit because attak 1c maddox for a simple copy of desine yes desine and not copy of real plane desine 3d in the game simple desine.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Xilon_x

but but icefire the airpplane for il-2 sturmovik 1946 are old 80 years ago is very very strange this legal action if i go in the american museum i loock the northrop grumman in free mode not censure not secret is very strange america is a free nation whit because attak 1c maddox for a simple copy of desine yes desine and not copy of real plane desine 3d in the game simple desine.

It's extreme capitalism... anything to make a buck or a few million.

I think it's completely ludicrous but I think that of a great many things

[Fighterace]

Originally Posted by Xilon_x

Northrop-Grumman took legal action against Ubisoft over the unlicensed use of trademarks they own (specifically, "Grumman") on the Pacific Fighters box and packaging. This legal action was perfectly justified.

UbiSoft and Maddox games jointly settled out of court with Northrop-Grumman. However, Ubisoft provided very bad legal assistance to Oleg, regardless of what he has been led to believe and has said. It is obvious his limited english and complete unfamiliarity with the American legal system were both taken advantage of.

The settlement covered the unauthorized use of a Northrop-Grumman trademark. Perfectly reasonable.

Northrop-Grumman, however, took advantage of the situation to also advance their demands for licensing fees to depict WWII era material. This has no legal basis, despite what they may claim. This has been established in court.

Despite this, as they had Ubisoft and Maddox Games at their mercy, Northrop-Grumman also legally bound them to pay exhorbant licensing fees to use any aircraft (or other material) that Northrop-Grumman claimed intellectual ownership of. Ubisoft's legal representation to Oleg presented the situation inaccurately, convincing Oleg that he had no choice or hope but to accept their demands. Regardless of the previous legal veracity of their claims, Northrop-Grumman now DOES have the legal right to demand licensing from Oleg.

The final insult was that Ubisoft, who commited the original infringement (as they are responsible for product packaging, and thus the infringing text on the box), made Oleg pay Northrop-Grumman the settlement.

Heroes of the Pacific (the creators of which, IRGurus, I spoke to personally) and Blazing Aces both feature various 'disputed' aircraft because Ubisoft didn't screw up the box on those and because those developers happened to speak fluent English and thus could fend of Northrop-Grummans baseless claims. N-G did approach IRGurus (who made Heroes), but was rebuffed and did not make further demands.

The settlement also stipulated that the matter not be discussed publicly (since it obviously would show the true colors of two out of three parties involved), which is why any and all threads that bring this matter up are deleted.

The only group who benefitted were the lawyers of a multi-billion dollar defense contractor. A multi-million dollar global game publisher sidestepped the blame and the fine. Ultimately, a dedicated Russian development studio, many of those working on a project for them at the time, those peoples' immediate families, the project's fans, and legal precedent all suffered.

I know. I built the P-61. Kami had a finished B-29 interior. An underway TBF cockpit and a completely finished Yorktown carrier were yanked. Other content that was planned, in progress, or even finished--some of it expensive--was discarded. Some artists who had devoted extraordinary time and made significant personal sacrifices to contribute to Pacific Fighters were never compensated and almost didn't even get acknowledged.

All of which Northrop-Grumman and Ubisoft have demanded be kept secret.

I, however, am not going to take this anymore. This entire post will be permanently saved to another location. I will link to it whenever the subject is broached. If I am banned, I will make sure it is publicly known here that this is why.

Oleg was taken advantage of in a horrible way, by those who stood to lose nothing and who had no support for their demands. We owe him our efforts to correct that.

So what can we do about it to get NG back into IL-2 1946?

[batistadk]

This matter is the type I'm buying nowadays. I have posted complains about this terrible deal some months ago, but, besides doing this, there aren't many things to do.

We are talking here about millions of dollars and all of that shine stuff that comes with capitalism. It's terrible to know that people like those in NG Corp., tries to erase the history of their own country, based only in money interests.

Besides online sells, that I think has some volume yet, IL-2 is out of the market for a long time now. It's a 10 years old product, and if we are talking about an electronic product, this age can be considered worse. It's not a huge profitable product anymore. And it's usage nowadays is based in a very 'closed' community, most of people enthusiasts of aviation history, WWII history etc. Then, we are talking about a 'bunch of guys' that don't wanna do any money with this software, but only have some fun in their free time.

But, taking in consideration the kind of stuff we are talking about here, as quoted by Xilon_X, the problem is much worse than it could be, and show us a good motive to not see Oleg, Maddox Games, or even the Team Daidalos involved in this kind of discussion. It's like a minefield, and if thah thing is going to blow, no one wants to be close. Totally understandable and fair. Besides that, Oleg is now working in a totally different project, and I think the last thing he wanna listen is the 'NG Corp.' name.

I'm not north american. But the only real shame is access the NG Corp. site, and read all the bullshit about being american, years full of history etc. They forgot to mention that when greens come this way, all of that can be forgotten.

I think we have a strong comunity out there, and of course, a lot of talented people that understand more than me about laws, copyright issues etc. But, unless someone wants to enter in a big fight with NG Corp., and it would be, we can do nothing about this issue. So

we have to suck it up and move along.

as you said guys. Unfortunately.

batistadk

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

...suck it up and move along... and fly some east front missions! Hey! Or for the japanese... or the Regio Aeronautica... or... or... or!

Its not that NG took us our toy away, hm?

[T_O_A_D]

It would be nice if NG would drop their attitude for future games or additions to newer products by Oleg.

Forget about IL2 and what they pulled over on it.

[Viking]

Originally Posted by T_O_A_D

It would be nice if NG would drop their attitude for future games or additions to newer products by Oleg.

Forget about IL2 and what they pulled over on it.

A US defence contractor that lives and thrives on the hate and fear of the American population will coop with a Russian war games maker??

Dont make me laugh!