What our good friends at Ubi$oft are doing...

[flyingblind]

Dose it work like steam where you can have multiple installs or do you have to pay the fee again or convince them it is a legitimate reinstall if you replace your computer or hard drive?

[Das Attorney]

Initiate Wall Of Text!

At the end of the day, it's just a business model they are introducing to maximise sales.

Currently, you buy the game. Now you will rent it. Or at least part of it.

As Nearmiss pointed out; if you don't like it , then don't part with the cash. They will soon get the message when people vote with their wallet.

Digital distribution has made game companies lazy. In 'the olden days', a game would be finished completely before release. If there was any bugs in it, then they would be in the game forever. Companies tended to try and eradicate them so as to not kill the sales. I guess the games were simpler in those days though, so less potential for bugs.

When companies discovered they can patch releases over the internet, they don't bother fixing everything at release (as we all know) and do it later. Then that leads onto companies deciding to release the game and then releasing DLC (often already on the game disk in some cases), and now the business model of Call Of Duty Elite (for example), where people are on a monthly subscription to get addons and new maps.

It's not really a surprise that Ubi are introducing this. Just a surprise they took so long to do it. I can't be bothered with console games anymore, with rubbish like UPlay and cynical attempts to generate extra sales through DLC held back from the customer on release.

Strangely enough, I do pay for DLC on PC games, but mainly for games/sims like X-Plane or Arma 2. At least I'm getting something tangible for the money - a whole extra faction, missions and maps in Arma 2 (£7.99) and for X-Plane, there's some good deals to be had like Heinz Dzuirowitz WW2 fighter pack (£25 IIRC). That's six planes and something like 15 skins.

I guess I'm more into indy developers these days like Laminar, Maddox, Bohemia Interactive and Egosoft. (Which comes with it's own set of problems like buggy releases etc)

If people are stupid enough to pay for all this licensing/renting rubbish, then that's their prerogative.

Deactivate Wall of text.

That is all.

[yellonet]

I'll never buy a game that uses something like that.
Too bad all the nubs out there that doesn't understand or care that the're helping to destroy for themselves will still buy those games.

I really think "features" like that should be illegal.
If not everyone that sells anything could have something similar to earn extra money when "their" product is sold second hand.

[Revvin]

A growing number of publishers are doing it as well as Ubisoft including the likes of EA and Sony. They are trying to stop the lost revenue from second hand games sales. They didn't do it in the past so why now? well in the past it wasn't an issue for the few games traded between friends or a few copies sold online here and there but now huge high street chains are heavily promoting second hand sales and its losing the publishers/developers money.

Gamestop in the US and GAME and Gamestation here in the UK heavily promote used sales over new. Nine out of ten times when I take a new game to the counter to pay the person behind the counter will ask if I'd like to save a few pounds and buy it second hand. I'd estimate 10-15% of shelf space is given to PC games in my local Gamestation and that shelf is shared between new and used copies. I'd say more than half the shop is dedicated to used games and they will even take the nice glossy store displays for new releases and fill those with second hand copies too.

Used car sales are different, new cars will always be needed,cars degrade, can easily be damaged in crashes etc and many businesses buy new and people aspire to buying a new car as it can be seen as something of a status symbol when its parked outside your home or place of work. Buying a game new or second hand makes no difference so it hurts those trying to sell the games new - the publishers over the high street shops that make more profit from second hand copies.

Why the debate ?

Greed, Ubisoft want a slice of the Pie that by rights they have no right to.

[yellonet]

It's one thing for publishers to stop companies from selling their games second hand for profit, a completely different thing to take away the ability to sell or give away games privately.

[vicinity]

Everybody's talking about the games companies losing money through second hand sales...

What a load of rubbish, where do you think all that extra money people make from reselling those games goes? That's right, most of it goes directly into funding new games sales and the companies end up getting a slice of the pre-owned pie. I'll add that I never trade in or resell any of my games but if I want to bring it round to a friends house or let someone borrow it i'd be prevented from doing so. I don't care if any company believes that to be piracy because it simply isn't true, the same number of copies exist as did before after all.

I'd like to think games companies are only damaging themselves by going down this route but with some of the bigger games (Call of Duty, Battlefield etc.) people would continue to buy them even if they had herpes included in the box. Games retail stores HAVE to sell pre owned games simply because the margins on new games and hardware for them are so low, it is simply not possible to make enough profit for them to continue to open their doors. I suppose it's all rather moot anyway, given that games will be around 100% digital distribution within five years.

[klem]

Originally Posted by Seeker

Not so sure I agree, Klem.

In both company cars and enterprise hardware, resell value is an important factor in making the purchasing decision.

No fleet manager will buy Italian, regardless of how much the sales reps fancy an Alfa, as the fleet manager knows that he'll get nothing in three years time when the warranty runs out, while if he specifies German he'll get back a significant proportion.

The same with hardware. We're changing from P5 AIX machines to virtual Linux on x86 precisely because we'll be able to sell the x86 blades when they're written off as assets in three years, while the Power architecture second hand market has tanked (and a new machine is 15 mil D. Kroner).

So it's a marketing issue.

Can you imagine buying a car with non transferable ownership?

I obviously didn't explain myself very well. I entirely agree with what you say. Resell value is important when buying a car or lots of other hardware - except my old PCs apparently

I was drawing a comparison between what car manufacturers expect from hardware re-sale - nothing except encouragement to buy one of their latest product - and what manuacturers of games software expect from their re-sales.

A car manufacturer is in the long-established position of sell once and move on as a person dedicated to buying only second hand cars is never going to buy a new one. He'll buy an old one, wear and tear and all.

Software manufacturers expect something different due to their established 'licencing' mentality - thanks to good ol' Bill Gates setting the industry standard - and for them, anyone buying software is getting it 'new' however old the disc is. And they have a point if their costs are recovered from pricing based on that expectation. Every second hand sale is a loss to sales of their new discs.

Of course I'm not daft enough to think they really will reduce prices if they can jump on the re-licensing bandwagon. They'll take as much as people are prepared to pay for their games. Only real competition will affect that and with the high rate of games turnover and particularly the bottomless appetite for new console games the developers are laughing all the way to the bank.

[klem]

Originally Posted by vicinity

..................I don't care if any company believes that to be piracy because it simply isn't true, the same number of copies exist as did before after all........................

I'm not decided on the issue yet in fact I don't care because I buy so few games, but just a small point. Well, a large one from the developer's point of view.

We are talking about Intellectual Property Rights. It's not about the number of discs in circulation, it's about the number of software installations from, say, one disc which could be several as a game gets resold a few times. They expect to get a return for every installation/use of the software.

Yes, I know, everyone uninstalls the game they sold on. Yea, right.

[Das Attorney]

Originally Posted by vicinity

... but with some of the bigger games (Call of Duty, Battlefield etc.) people would continue to buy them even if they had herpes included in the box.

lol

http://thefacepalmedgamer.wordpress....of-duty-elite/