BF109's and Stukas too hard to shoot down? Anyone else finding this?

[pupo162]

i placed a full pack of 20 mils on a hurircane last night it kept flying, when i used my 303s the poor nbastard was put on fire

[ZaltysZ]

At least for BF109, convergence settings work (except, horizontal and vertical are mistakenly labeled) in QMB, only custom belts don't.

[Strike]

Actually, with guns set to 150yd convergence I managed to saw off a 109's wing with 1 pass deflection shot. My guess was that I hit the 20mm Ammo drum and blew off the wing. Also if you go AP rounds you'll penetrate the seat armor if you hit the plane's cockpit area. I usually get my 109 kills by pilot kill.

[lacusch69]

I have hit a Beaufighter with MG FF, 25 times. And fly away, without problems...

[TonyD]

I too have experienced this, but as Rather peeved and ElAurens ponted out, this is probably very realistic. I did change tack and aim for one of the engines on the Heinkel with better results, even hitting a fuel tank (I assume) and causing the wing to explode.

The Stukas have a very narrow cross-section from the rear, so logically it is very difficult to hit anything vital, but the damage model appears very realistic. I've seen one of the fixed wheels come off, been showered in an assortment of debris, and noticed the dead rear gunner slumped behind his gun.

The level of detail evident in this sim is impressive, and am massively enjoying the campaign. Having to take off, fly a mission and make it back to base in one piece is fantastic. Reminds me of my first introduction to the genre - M$ Combat Flight Simulator, way back when.

[Kurfurst]

You probably didn't have anything vital - engine, pilot, fuel tank or radiator. Its odd, but it could happen. Personally I have little trouble knocking down 109.

One thing to keep in mind that only reasonably hittable vital system in the 109 wing are the radiators, otherwise the wing is pretty empty.

If you shoot the fuselage from dead astern, chances of success are low. I presume, given your results that the 109E-3 has armor plates modeled. A 8mm plate was mounted behind the fuel tank, and its should be proof against .303s at just about any range. With all rounds defeated by the armor plate, the rounds only pass through the rear fuselage and the tail, which is completely empty - you may hit the control cables or the radio though. Everything that is vital is front of it - fuel tank, pilot, engine, oil tank, in that order.

I suppose shooting it from an angle is the key, as you can bypass the armor plate, and hit the fuel or the pilot, since the armor plate is a distance behind them in the fuselage. Probably shooting from a bit below is the best approach.

[xnomad]

I'd say it's convergence too. I do most of my shooting with the two 7.92mm MG's in the bf109. I save the cannon for close in. In fact I spray with the MG a lot as there is just soooo much ammo for it. I've smoked a lot of Hurris with these.

Now that's 2 MG vs the Spit's 8 but they are straight down the centre so if I aim at the engine from an off tail angle I'll get results. With the Spit at close ranges you'll be hitting the wings of the 109 when dead astern. Plus you are lined up with all the armour facing you. I've had the best results at angles off tail.

In real life the RAF boys were happy to see some smoke, oil, or radiator fluid leaking and knew they had removed that bf109 from the fight and that he also probably would have a hard time getting home over the water.

[BadAim]

Shit happens.

[baffa]

I usually find the BF109 catch fire quite easy or a pilot kill, just a few short bursts.

I find it more random to hit things with the BF109 because of the insane recoil from those cannons.

[DocSigma]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

You must remember that the .303" British cartridge was adopted in 1888 as the standard infantry rifle round. It was designed to kill unarmoured, soft skinned human beings, not shoot down machines that had not been invented yet.

Rifle caliber machine guns, while still in use in most air forces at the start of WW2 were inadequate at best in the air to air role. It was not uncommon for German bombers to get back to their bases in France with hundreds of bullet holes in them.

To take down a fighter you must hit something vital. Hard to do from astern with what amounts to a fast firing deer rifle.

This is true and modeled well imo.


For example... It took me multiple bursts to take down or cause significant amounts of damage to a BF110 whereas the next BF110 I encountered it took one small, less than a second, burst to completely destroy the aircraft.. Difference was that the first plane I was putting rounds into the control surfaces whereas that second 110 got the rounds directly into its right engine and the thing went up in a ball of flame. Was kinda cool actually beause it was flying a tight wedge with it's wing leader and due to their proximity to each other the damage to the wingman also took out the wing leader.. very cool and I wish I had saved the track... It basically took me maybe 3 bullets to bring down two BF110's.