Fulqrum Publishing Home   |   Register   |   Today Posts   |   Members   |   UserCP   |   Calendar   |   Search   |   FAQ

Go Back   Official Fulqrum Publishing forum > Fulqrum Publishing > IL-2 Sturmovik

IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 10-20-2007, 12:11 PM
DKoor's Avatar
DKoor DKoor is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Croatia, East Side
Posts: 377
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fly_zo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKoor
Quote:
Originally Posted by zapatista
if you want to SIMULATE how a real pilot flew and maneuvered his plane during combat in ww2, you have to include pilot fatigue, its that simple.
...........or I will still outturn all your FWs 10x in row in my brand new Spit25.
... that your spit 25 starts to hunt me in my dreams ...

ili kao Kosorica iz paštete he he ... samo udri s lobiranjem baš me zanima jel bude kakvog efekta...

pozdrav
Z


..........the point being;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain32
What we would like is to stop endless gray-out riding that is possible in il2 and greatly benefits better turning planes that can just pull 5-6G's anytime they need it...
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-20-2007, 12:20 PM
RegRag1977 RegRag1977 is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKoor
Quote:
Originally Posted by fly_zo
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKoor
Quote:
Originally Posted by zapatista
if you want to SIMULATE how a real pilot flew and maneuvered his plane during combat in ww2, you have to include pilot fatigue, its that simple.
...........or I will still outturn all your FWs 10x in row in my brand new Spit25.
... that your spit 25 starts to hunt me in my dreams ...

ili kao Kosorica iz paštete he he ... samo udri s lobiranjem baš me zanima jel bude kakvog efekta...

pozdrav
Z


..........the point being;
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brain32
What we would like is to stop endless gray-out riding that is possible in il2 and greatly benefits better turning planes that can just pull 5-6G's anytime they need it...
I can only agree with this statement the turning and burning A/C pilots are overmodelled.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-20-2007, 01:54 PM
Avimimus Avimimus is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 803
Default

Someone needs to look up some scientific papers on fatigue in sports or combat situations (as well as loss of night vision which is totally undermodeled)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-20-2007, 02:41 PM
zapatista's Avatar
zapatista zapatista is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,172
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOZR
To a point it's BS.. if the pilot have fatigue how are you going to make the rush of adrenaline? you will get because in RL it's the case BIG time .. I'm more worry about where to pee than fatigue...
Complete Arcade.. what about real management ? hum ... that will make you fatigue real quick and think twice before engaging and also better management better performance better aces etc.. this is bad.. seriously very quaky!!

Yeas you get tired for sure i don't need to read no book for now, i have my own experiences in warbirdS..
has a new pilot yeas you get tired and also more prone to G's and yes btw many just crashed just from fainting on G's .. But like guys that have a lots of hours in flights and fights ... hum? also I garanty you if you fly your plane correctly and if maddox make is sim good you will get tired and fade up to do all your management.
you dont seem to have a clue about the importance of pilot fatique in flying these older aircraft in ww2, neither do you seem willing to look at historical facts on the subject and inform yourself a bit better, and now you'r trying to claim having flown a pc game like warbirds makes you an expert on the topic ?

flying combat maneuvers in a dogfight involves a lot of physical strength to handle the stick and rudder pedals, and pilots would fatigue quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-20-2007, 04:32 PM
GOZR GOZR is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: France - USA
Posts: 386
Default

When i say warbird i say warbird ..
Now i give you an example that you book pilot may understand .. While racing a motorcycle like say open class you are on board of an very power full bike versus many other guys well you will have to give a lots in physical.. for a certain time.. there will be fatigue but also while pulling some hard corners, acceleration you will yes be fatigue but the adrenaline pumping will keep you in the hard race but when stopping you will be very tired and so exausted and than maybe write a book about how hard and difficult it is yes.. but now in a yak 9 when you fuel keep you in the sky for lets 55 minutes and like the Normandie niemen guys that probably just flew in many many occasion just for 40 minutes not full fuel tank well the fatigue will take a different aspect as well ..

So yes fatigue is cool but how this will be modeled? This is the big concern... some kind of modern cod4 blur vision ? not as fast or force to respond? pulling the stick not that hard ?And where the adrenaline is coming in can make the pilot do miracle like in many occasions when faced to death, actually how this will be modeled? is this will be in consideration ?

This really need some attention and definitely some server side settings, maybe it will be just a better design of the blur G's .. Good questions to the Oleg team..

Right now you can accomplish very weird figures in il2 due to a not good weight, force, torque design, no weather air mass movement design etc.. That should change those FW190 flip flop with no ending flying style.. this 190 is an example..
__________________
-GOZR

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-20-2007, 04:50 PM
ElAurens's Avatar
ElAurens ElAurens is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: The Great Black Swamp of Ohio
Posts: 2,185
Default

Currently all aircraft are modeled without factory defects, or production line variations, as it's the only way to pull off an electronic simulation with any kind of balance.

So... How are we going model our pilots? There are far more variations in the human machine than in any number of WW2 aircraft.

Is your pilot 18 years old and very fit or 25 years old and less so?

Too much time at the pub last night?

Flew a difficult mission yesterday evening and now have to scramble early in the morning?

This will be a gigantic can of worms to implement, and will make the FM wars of the past seem trivial.
__________________


Personally speaking, the P-40 could contend on an equal footing with all the types of Messerschmitts, almost to the end of 1943.
~Nikolay Gerasimovitch Golodnikov
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-20-2007, 04:57 PM
BP_Jagger BP_Jagger is offline
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4
Default

I'd assume that it will in part be based on:

1. G's
2. Altitude
3. Wounds

Then again, it also maybe based on progressive fatigue/multiple missions.

Example: Your pilot is flying in an AC which sustains damage to it's oxygen system, thus causing him to be restricted to a lower altitude, or face the "fatigue" issues of altitude.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-20-2007, 05:09 PM
RegRag1977 RegRag1977 is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElAurens
Currently all aircraft are modeled without factory defects, or production line variations, as it's the only way to pull off an electronic simulation with any kind of balance.

So... How are we going model our pilots? There are far more variations in the human machine than in any number of WW2 aircraft.

Is your pilot 18 years old and very fit or 25 years old and less so?

Too much time at the pub last night?

Flew a difficult mission yesterday evening and now have to scramble early in the morning?

This will be a gigantic can of worms to implement, and will make the FM wars of the past seem trivial.
I don't think so. We already have a single pilot model for all A/C in the sim and nobody is complaining about the fact that in real life he would not black out like the modeled pilot we all have...Let us all have the same restrictions based on something average (like what we already have in IL2)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-20-2007, 05:20 PM
GOZR GOZR is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: France - USA
Posts: 386
Default

Yes the G we have in game based on a weaker pilots ..

Your pilot is flying in an AC which sustains damage to it's oxygen system, thus causing him to be restricted to a lower altitude,
Things like that are actually great i agree because it is very real.. when pilots have been shoot some modern blur etc.. could be nice yes..
Many many planes are not modeled to their full strength.
__________________
-GOZR

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-20-2007, 05:47 PM
Brain32 Brain32 is offline
Approved Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Posts: 91
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOZR
.. but now in a yak 9 when you fuel keep you in the sky for lets 55 minutes and like the Normandie niemen guys that probably just flew in many many occasion just for 40 minutes not full fuel tank well the fatigue will take a different aspect as well ..
And how did they fly this 40 mins? Did they pull 5-6G's break every 15seconds or so for ENTIRE 40mins of flight?
Heck even today's Raptor pilots with fancy moden G-suits that were trained for G endurance would go nuts after 40mins of such flight, and you think a bunch of farmboys(no disrespect meant) in leather jackets did so on daily basis like you can in il2?

And I don't get your "andrenaline burst" thingy, for me to suprise you, you need to be out of combat in normal flight regime, that would be BEFORE you got tired by x-number of high G manouvers...
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2007 Fulqrum Publishing. All rights reserved.