Community FM Efford

[Jotaele]

I think 1c should have more time to tweack his game before peoples start to mod.That made users made used to new characteristiques and becomes us in betatesters.If game is modded so soon, a lto of work could never be apreciated for players.
Also, too much peoples messing around with the mod, could discourage the 1c team in improving the game.
I would encourage any modification that can help or guidge developers in his path.
Visual mod are always welcom.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

I agree with you about the game is still unfinished, but the bolded part is laughable: talkin about IL2 series, we had to wait 10 years to have a realistic Spitfire and an italian engineer to adjust some FMs to realistic performances (for US and LW, HSFX 5.0).

And here we are again with the old Emil and his 25 seconds...

Personally I think that Ilya and CO should leave the data management to the modders (CloD has born with MOD support, if it's really working) while they should focus only in the physical engine and the graphical engine. Think about the performance of the application, other people will think to add the content (something like rFactor)

If this is done in cooperation with the Devs and those tweaks are released in a way like the Daedalus Team does for IL2, zero problem with that. In fact that could result in achievements of epic proportions.

If, however, the modders all work for themselves and only take those reports and documents for their airplane performance values, then this Sim is dead before it has even taken off.

And the worst case scenario would be individuals tweaking their own aircraft to their liking going into regular server ruining it for all others. How are you going to check that?

IMHO, the files in question should be protected ASAP, not matter if an unofficial development/mod team takes up the work or not.

Cheers

[Sven]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

If this is done in cooperation with the Devs and those tweaks are released in a way like the Daedalus Team does for IL2, zero problem with that. In fact that could result in achievements of epic proportions.

If, however, the modders all work for themselves and only take those reports and documents for their airplane performance values, then this Sim is dead before it has even taken off.

And the worst case scenario would be individuals tweaking their own aircraft to their liking going into regular server ruining it for all others. How are you going to check that?

IMHO, the files in question should be protected ASAP, not matter if an unofficial development/mod team takes up the work or not.

Cheers

I do believe the files are locked for MP, which is good, but we don't know yet how securely locked it is, better keep an eye out for Tiger Moths flying over with the speed of sound!

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

If this is done in cooperation with the Devs and those tweaks are released in a way like the Daedalus Team does for IL2, zero problem with that. In fact that could result in achievements of epic proportions.

If, however, the modders all work for themselves and only take those reports and documents for their airplane performance values, then this Sim is dead before it has even taken off.

And the worst case scenario would be individuals tweaking their own aircraft to their liking going into regular server ruining it for all others. How are you going to check that?

IMHO, the files in question should be protected ASAP, not matter if an unofficial development/mod team takes up the work or not.

Cheers

The good thing about MODs (not "modifications" but "modules") is that you and your server can run the package you want.

But to have modules (and not modifications) we need the SDK ASAP.
Who cares about the stock FMs, nobody is so stupid to change those and if he do he would not fly without being banned in a dozen of minutes.

Look at the HSFX 5.0 where if you want you can enable those different FMs. At the same time this package is used by so many serious virtual squads that FMs are not being changed to the taste of "one side" but every squad gives its feedbacks. And then all the squad agrees to fly with those FMs during the coop, df server of online campaign; these are guys who fly full difficulty missions.

Mods give you the choice to play the game you want and this is the direction that 1C guys have to take ASAP. Team Daidalos is good but remember what happened with the new advanced bomb fusing; dozens of people crying about it (too hard, not totally realistic ect)
And they still couldn't fix the 190s.

So hacking the code should be denied by 1C but at the same time they should provide the SDK so that people can have "really" fun... (I'll never fly again in a Emil with a turn time of 25secs)

If TODAY there are still buyers of IL2 1946 it's because of "illegal" modders.

[b101uk]

Well lets hope the next patch now encrypts files and if a file is found modified in any way steam forces its re-downloading in an encrypted state, as on-line play will be ruined without.

As for community “FM” modification, err no there are to many people who blindly believe in published figures and lack common sense.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

The good thing about MODs (not "modifications" but "modules") is that you and your server can run the package you want.

But to have modules (and not modifications) we need the SDK ASAP.
Who cares about the stock FMs, nobody is so stupid to change those and if he do he would not fly without being banned in a dozen of minutes.

Look at the HSFX 5.0 where if you want you can enable those different FMs. At the same time this package is used by so many serious virtual squads that FMs are not being changed to the taste of "one side" but every squad gives its feedbacks. And then all the squad agrees to fly with those FMs during the coop, df server of online campaign; these are guys who fly full difficulty missions.

Mods give you the choice to play the game you want and this is the direction that 1C guys have to take ASAP. Team Daidalos is good but remember what happened with the new advanced bomb fusing; dozens of people crying about it (too hard, not totally realistic ect)
And they still couldn't fix the 190s.

So hacking the code should be denied by 1C but at the same time they should provide the SDK so that people can have "really" fun... (I'll never fly again in a Emil with a turn time of 25secs)

If TODAY there are still buyers of IL2 1946 it's because of "illegal" modders.

Do not get me wrong, I used UP and HSFX and considered them a huge achievement. But that was at a time when IL2 was at the end if it's lifetime and new input into the series was urgently required.

So while in principle I am all for modules, as you call them, I am just saying this does not achieve to much as long the individual is able to tweak his planes the way he wants without any restrictions. In that I am not worrying about the jet speed Swordfish, these guys will be banned really quick, I am more worried about subtle changes that give slight edges that could also be explained with good flying, and that at a time when the whole series is too young to have really established itself. I see massive problems coming to the series in this regard.

And I repeat, I am aware of yours and Hunin's efforts in IL2 and welcomed them much, so this is not aimed at you guys at all, it's more about a general worry. Getting some sort of official backing here would do lots to calm people worries, especially those that don't know your history.

[csThor]

Quite frankly the only thing that'll come out of that will be the same as in Il-2 - various groups of people flaming each other like prophets of various religious sects, all of which are absolutely convinced only they have the holy grail of FM/DM/whatever and all others are heretics. Cooperation with the developer yes, and a lot of that please. But getting "the community" to agree on anything? Well, I've got some property on Jupiter to sell to you.

Thanks, I pass ...

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Bewolf

But that was at a time when IL2 was at the end if it's lifetime and new input into the series was urgently required.

I totally agree with you.

Edit: still we had to wait 10 year for corrected FMs.

@Thor: I want to choose my religion, I don't want "their". In this the way everybody is happy.

Originally Posted by csThor

Quite frankly the only thing that'll come out of that will be the same as in Il-2 - various groups of people flaming each other like prophets of various religious sects, all of which are absolutely convinced only they have the holy grail of FM/DM/whatever and all others are heretics. Cooperation with the developer yes, and a lot of that please. But getting "the community" to agree on anything? Well, I've got some property on Jupiter to sell to you.

Thanks, I pass ...

I second that. Just look what mods have done to IL2. A splitted community with tons of servers and one cannot fly on most of them because one has not the right mod. Before mods one could jump into whatever server and have fun. And don't even talk about the cheat accusations that florished like pest plants. Mods are MP game killers.

I always had hoped that humans can learn from the past ....

[IvanK]

Doesn't STEAM and a Confs.ini entry of VAC=1 force the STEAM check system on ?