Sad news, it's the end of Flight Simulator.

[The Kraken]

Originally Posted by Flying Pencil

My opinion:
The huge backlash against MS over FSX further hurt MS's very sorry image. Eventually (after a few months, that is) the numskulls leading MS realized the screwed up and are starting MAJOR DAMAGE CONTROL.

I don't think that whatever backlash there was had any impact on MS. It's simply that MS is completely erratic with their PC gaming strategy. When the FS team was disbanded there was a general wave of layoffs at MS, not just in games-related development areas. Recently now they stated they'd want to get back into the PC games area again, probably after seeing how successful Steam is. And I guess someone realized that MSFS had people buy addons (or "DLC" as it's called these days) for years already, way before this became the latest buzz in the industry. I have no doubt that the most important part of the LIVE integration of Microsoft Flight will be the in-game store for new planes and scenery.

Will be interesting to see how this turns out, until yet another change of strategy will happen

[Blackdog_kt]

I don't think flight simulators in general will have a problem just because MS is doing erratic things.

At this point in time there's a good coverage of almost all categories and it's expanding. There's RoF for WWI, IL2 for WWII, DCS for the modern stuff and also MSFS and Xplane for civilian flying. RoF is still young, IL2 is old but it's still getting upgraded, SoW is closer every day, DCS is only on its second installment and Xplane will be getting a new version. Also, let's not forget the upcoming Jet Thunder sim about the falklands war.

As for how good or bad FSX is, the general consensus among civilian virtual pilots is that FSX is a somewhat poorly optimized resource hog and its default flight modelling is a bit funky at times but it allows for better graphics, while Xplane has the best flight modelling but uses too much of repeating/generic graphics for the ground.

However, some of the add-ons for FSX are very realistic because the developers can use FSX only as a "hub" and thanks to its simconnect interface they can "plug in" improved modules of their own that considerably improve what's lacking in the default aircraft. I can attest to that after having spent quite some time flying 3rd party payware aircraft on a friend's PC. So it would be more accurate to say that default FSX is lacking in FM but has a lot of "hooks" built into its engine if people want to improve things on their own.

In the future i think that Xplane 10 will probably take the lead for civilian sims. The graphics on aircraft are already similar in quality between Xplane and FSX, but for Xplane10 they are also working on a new and imrpoved method to bridge the one gap where FSX is superior: the environment graphics (terrain and sky). The fact that it's going to be a fresh, imrpoved engine coupled with the fact that FSX support will be declining as time goes by is also another advantage for Xplane10.

In any case, even stock FSX with all its drawbacks can give you a more detailed idea of how an aircraft really operates and how simplified some things have been in most combat flight simulators. Thankfully, a lot of that extra features usually found in civilian sims are going to be included in SoW as well and they will most probably be done to a higher degree of realism and better optimized too. It was Oleg Maddox who said some time ago that there are 300 to 500 different parameters being monitored by the SoW engine for each individual aircraft.

So, it looks like we are getting enough titles. None is perfect and they have to focus on a specific part of modelling the experience of flight, but as technology goes forward and each series evolves it looks like they are all incorporating features from each other to form a more complete simulated picture.

In the end, flight sims might be an expensive developing process for a low pool of potential sales but their advantage is that they have a very stable and supportive customer base, so it's "less money but more or less a guaranteed audience size" instead of "potential for massive sales that might or might not happen".

I think that after years of neglect where a select few held the torch for the genre, we are going through a period of a mild resurgence of the hobby.

[Trumper]

Best marketer,best looking box,best blurb on the box, price ,name [anything to associate product] and availability will win the sales stakes.
80% of buyers won't read these forums,they will look at the box and decide on the spur of the moment or through adverts [ how many il2 adverts did you see - -non] ,M/$ have marketing cornered.
Oleg NEEDS to make BIG steps with selling and advertising.

The biggest problem with a possible marketing campaign (here in North America, don't know about Europe and elsewhere) is that a publisher will look at SOW and say,

"Flight sim, what the heck do we do with this? These things make what? 1/3000th what a good FPS/Sports title does? I guess we could put a little 1/16th page ad in PC gamer, and maybe a pilot magazine or two."

If you want to move boxes you have to go big or go home. The problem with a lot of publishers is that their motto is, "nothing ventured nothing lost". They know the return on these games is small, and usually takes years to see full potential. Meanwhile they'll plaster Black OPS all over the Internet and TV because they know they will make back all that ad money in a matter of hours after release (sometimes before if pre-orders are strong).

There are three ways for a flight sim to do really well. . .

1. Huge first class ad campaign. Make some good printed ads, and a really nice TV spot, and have the game highly visible. Make this game look like it's not only realistic, but non-stop action as well. You've already sold the old farts this game years ago with this forum, you need to hook some of those younger ones who are deciding what to do with their $60. "Hmmm, madden 2011 or do I try something different?" It's those people on the fence you need to sell. This is where box art can also really make a difference. Look at Wings/Birds or Prey for a good example. I don't know how many people that introduced to flight sims. Make the cover look like a non-stop explosion fest.

2. Get some free advertising. Oleg is probably the most aware of how great the Battle of Britain Anniversary would have been if his sim was on the market. Lots of news and documentaries probably would have loved to include a blurb about the most realistic BOB simulator out there. Spring 2011, nothing to remind people about WWII air combat there.

3. Terrorists use your product to train on. Not all that likely since MS has that market cornered.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by speculum jockey

The biggest problem with a possible marketing campaign (here in North America, don't know about Europe and elsewhere) is that a publisher will look at SOW and say,

"Flight sim, what the heck do we do with this? These things make what? 1/3000th what a good FPS/Sports title does? I guess we could put a little 1/16th page ad in PC gamer, and maybe a pilot magazine or two."

The place to sell flight sims is in model shops, where they sell plastic plane models and radio controlled models. So far when I've been in those shops, I've seen no sign of flight simulators for sale in there.

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

The place to sell flight sims is in model shops, where they sell plastic plane models and radio controlled models. So far when I've been in those shops, I've seen no sign of flight simulators for sale in there.

That was an thought I also had recently, actually. Not so much just that but more of a 'dad shop' where there's lots of things like that, driving games and flight-sims and model kits and so on. Especially if there were a few demo machines around to try things out. Something I feel is missing in games shops. Consoles, yes, but never PCs.

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

The place to sell flight sims is in model shops, where they sell plastic plane models and radio controlled models. So far when I've been in those shops, I've seen no sign of flight simulators for sale in there.

You should be trying to get people interested in WWII aircraft first. You put a kick-ass 30 second spot before or after some popular show like American Idol, X factor, or whatever, and you'll see better numbers than FSX got since this product actually looks interesting.

Putting a display in a modeling shop will get you marginal results given the demographics.

[TUSA/TX-Gunslinger]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

The place to sell flight sims is in model shops, where they sell plastic plane models and radio controlled models. So far when I've been in those shops, I've seen no sign of flight simulators for sale in there.

I completly agree with you and Grunch! Biggest bang for the buck, particularly if you target the larger stores and chains.

It's funny, I started going to an incredible model store a few years ago - to buy high end books about WW2 (and now WWI) aircraft, unit histories and such - all stimulated by Il2 - more accurate data for mission building, forum discussions, tactics, skinning and such.....

I found a fairly large group of folks frequent this shop, through the week and particuarly on weekends. It's not a chain and is locally owned. Here's a link...

http://www.kingshobbyshop.com/

I used to build models when I was younger - but have found WWII flight simulation much more satisfying. You can actually fly (and fight) these models

These two hobbies (including R/C) have an incredible amount of synergy and overlap - however I don't think large internet/TV ads gain any penetration of this market. When I've had the occasional conversation with many of these folks, they don't seem to be aware of Il2 nor SOW.

In my city (Austin) I know there are people who fly Il2, ROF, etc.... however there is nothing to draw them together and inform or expand the market.

There must be some way of developing an inexpensive marketing program to tie these things together.

S!

Gunny

[diveplane]

Originally Posted by Redwan

http://flyawaysimulation.com/postt35097.html

We can thank Oleg to invest in a sector that doesn't seem se lucrative.

microsoft still working on the flightsim products , they regrouped and are doing a new version. titled microsoft flight.


http://www.microsoft.com/games/fsinsider/

[Flying Pencil]

Originally Posted by diveplane

microsoft still working on the flightsim products , they regrouped and are doing a new version. titled microsoft flight.


http://www.microsoft.com/games/fsinsider/

Why did the regroup?

Official MS statement was they "disbanded" a section dedicated to its FS product, but later said it was keeping some core employees (still laied off 5000 of them).

Bottom line, 5000 programmers is a massive downsizing, they simply will not be able to do any ground up upgrade to its FSX.
What they could do is reconfigure the engine, improve parts, add features.


Something must have made MS change its mind to make a new version so soon after canning most of its staff.


As to SoW advertising, I agree, 1C and publisher will need a massive ad campaign, how they plan to do it is another topic.