Kiting on impossible?

[Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by Razorflame

it's possible to kite all


some are just harder

u just have to "hug" it
(i tried it on different playthrough and everything was kiteable)

indeed some are very hard
but nonetheless possible
but kiting is weak

only use it as last resort

Yeah well I'm not entirely sure how you're supposed to be able to beat packs that have a lot of Beholders/Archers or a Cyclops or two without having a larger army or enough leadership to be able to pick up the tier 4-5 units when all that's available is a very small pack of Inquisitors. If all I were trying to do was beat the game on impossible I wouldn't kite much at all, but I'm going for no loss and with weak units against some packs on completely open maps it literally seems "impossible" without getting a few levels and flags.

well assuming he kitted as much as possible his army got weaker in the long run

kitting is bad
since u leave yourself weaker

How so? I'm just running around gathering experience and flags before my first fight. What exactly am I missing out on that would leave me weaker when I'm not losing units? I'm not going for record time on my first impossible no loss playthrough, so I can worry about it when I attempt that. I want to actually beat it no loss first.

[N3MES1S]

Hmm, are u sure the map to verona is not on Scarlett? cuz i always find it on scarlett.
Sometimes kitting is not possible, u need to fight the troop. If u didnt find the map to Verona on Scarlett, the only place u will find it is on Bolo, and u will need to fight that troop to pick it up.

[N3MES1S]

Originally Posted by Sanctuary

Yeah well I'm not entirely sure how you're supposed to be able to beat packs that have a lot of Beholders/Archers or a Cyclops or two without having a larger army or enough leadership to be able to pick up the tier 4-5 units when all that's available is a very small pack of Inquisitors. If all I were trying to do was beat the game on impossible I wouldn't kite much at all, but I'm going for no loss and with weak units against some packs on completely open maps it literally seems "impossible" without getting a few levels and flags.



How so? I'm just running around gathering experience and flags before my first fight. What exactly am I missing out on that would leave me weaker when I'm not losing units? I'm not going for record time on my first impossible no loss playthrough, so I can worry about it when I attempt that. I want to actually beat it no loss first.

I think Sanctuary didnt mean that. Cuz kitting is Basic on AP for advance on hard and impossible modes. If Sanctuary loses units when kitting, hes doing something wrong. Im tired of play games on impossible difficulty and i always kitie the islands as much as possible. And i never lose any unit.

[Zechnophobe]

Okay, first of all, there are 3 (I think) maps to Verona that you might exist for your (maybe four).

1) Scarlet Wind. Near to where Richard is hanging out.
2) Bola. On the side of the path between the barbarian 'village' and the area with the Wife.
3) Rusty Anchor, in the little mini graveyard
4) ?? I think there is another option in Rusty Anchor on the little sandlot to the left of where you spawn there.


You do NOT need to KITE, necessarily, to beat these forces with no loss, but you may need to use better strategies. Remember that no losses isn't just about having more troops, it's about using troops that don't die.

You have ogres, do you have stoneskin? Could you combine stoneskin, mana spring, and heal to keep them alive (And spam mystic eggs?) This is sometimes an option. Do you have fear to keep bad guys off your ogres for a loong time? Could you phantom paladins for a lot of healing?

Sometimes less is more, don't bring crap units that aren't going to help, and fight a long, but careful, battle. It can work.

[Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

Okay, first of all, there are 3 (I think) maps to Verona that you might exist for your (maybe four).

1) Scarlet Wind. Near to where Richard is hanging out.
2) Bola. On the side of the path between the barbarian 'village' and the area with the Wife.
3) Rusty Anchor, in the little mini graveyard
4) ?? I think there is another option in Rusty Anchor on the little sandlot to the left of where you spawn there.


You do NOT need to KITE, necessarily, to beat these forces with no loss, but you may need to use better strategies. Remember that no losses isn't just about having more troops, it's about using troops that don't die.

You have ogres, do you have stoneskin? Could you combine stoneskin, mana spring, and heal to keep them alive (And spam mystic eggs?) This is sometimes an option. Do you have fear to keep bad guys off your ogres for a loong time? Could you phantom paladins for a lot of healing?

Sometimes less is more, don't bring crap units that aren't going to help, and fight a long, but careful, battle. It can work.

I'm not trying to sound argumentative or "know it all", but the concepts you've outlined are extremely basic and of course I know what to use on a "tank". The simple fact is that I can only heal, recast stone skin/mana spring so many turns before mana actually starts becoming an issue and I have to chose between mana spring (which still leads to attrition), stone skin and a heal, none of which really helps when I have almost no mana. I also understand about hiding or storing "crap" units, it's similar to what you can do at the start with the five stack of paladins to breeze your way through it no loss.

I didn't have phantom or target and it *could* have been an issue with how I built my Mage early on, but I'm not sure how much different I could have made it to make a difference. I had rank 1 higher magic and rank 1 transmute.

Regardless, I started over yet again and have all but the last two maps and I was able to kite my way to all of them AND gather around 1850 leadership before my first battle. I'm sure skill is a factor, but luck is as well.

[Zechnophobe]

The only reason I am bringing up the all important fundamentals, is because they served me well enough on all three (one of each class) of my no loss impossible runs. And I never kited a map.

[Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

The only reason I am bringing up the all important fundamentals, is because they served me well enough on all three (one of each class) of my no loss impossible runs. And I never kited a map.

How many times did you normally restart a fight though? Getting no loss without kiting is cool, but spending up to an hour or even two on some fights due to reloads gets tiresome. All of the reloads also seem to map out what the AI will do every time, so eventually you already know what they are going to do a few moves ahead.

Right now I'm playing as a Mage and have Necromancers, Demonologists, two Black Dragons, 36 Black Knights and 15 Paladins and I don't think the group composition is all that synergistic, but it's certainly very good. I could probably get far with just the dragons alone and playing from the spellbook, but hindsight and all that...since I didn't know I would find the dragon eggs so early. I also read about how to change the Call of the Colossus creature that's summoned for future reference.

[Zechnophobe]

Yeah, that looks like a lot of good units that don't combine at all well. Can't only give extra turns to the demonologists, can't use paladin's rezz ability except on the demonologist, Paladin's and black knights get left behind while black dragon does most of the work.

As for restarting combats, I don't really do it that often. Only for big tough battles, I might try 2 or 3 times if things don't go well. Are you also doing a 'no reload' run?

[Sanctuary]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

Yeah, that looks like a lot of good units that don't combine at all well. Can't only give extra turns to the demonologists, can't use paladin's rezz ability except on the demonologist, Paladin's and black knights get left behind while black dragon does most of the work.

As for restarting combats, I don't really do it that often. Only for big tough battles, I might try 2 or 3 times if things don't go well. Are you also doing a 'no reload' run?

No, I'm definitely not doing a no reolad run right now. Essentially I'm just trying to beat impossible without any losses and I've had to start my game over a few times (but then also adding the gift pack after my second game helped with that...).

I've been a big fan of turn based strategy games since...Shining Force first came out on the original Sega Genesis, but I just got KB:TL a little over a month ago, beat it on hard then impossible (nothing special, just simply beat it) and ended up getting AP about a week ago. I wasn't sure if the game was going to be different enough to warrant a purchase, but I'm glad I picked it up because it definitely has enough differences that make it feel seperate and most of them were really good improvements. A no reload game is definitely something I may try in the future though, it makes it similar to Diablo 2 hardcore mode where if you die, that's it.

[Sanctuary]

I caved in and started using the black knight cheese. At first I was just anticipating how awesome it was going to be, especially after having to "level" the shard and make sure I had enough leadership as well as knights available when it was ready. Needless to say, I'm pretty sure anyone who has used this tactic knows how blatantly overpowered it is. Not that it's the only strong way to beat impossible with no loss, but it almost makes the rest of the game trivial.

After I beat impossible for the first time without any losses, I'm going to try it again but just use the single dragon method (and see how far I can get *without* resetting fights)...although I'm not quite sure which one I really want to use. Black is good for the initiative and anti magic properties, but red seems overall better just because you can buff, heal and even phantom them and they have their breath activation that is really great in conjunction with oil mist. Maybe just alternate between the two depending on the fights, especially when supressing items.

Really went off topic there, but the point I have yet to bring up is that for the most part I know what can and cannot be kited now and haven't really had issues with anything besides the one or two spots I've mentioned. I think there may have been another, but pretty much everything else was easy enough to get through trial and error. I still don't think that spot in Bola is kiteable though, but maybe it is, or maybe it really does just depend on the unit that appears.