Another method of activating SOW.........

[csThor]

Originally Posted by zauii

The fun thing is that the so called "BS" are the people themselves that surround each other with something they claim to be "their rights", when there is no such thing here..
The developers make the game and they themselves alone have every right in the world to protect their own game/property in any way they see fit no matter how much you twist and turn it.

BS is only the talk of "wannabe pirates" scared that their product would be generated useless 5 years later, but let me enlighten you, we live in 2010 a time when protection is necessary.

Why would you be so worried about whats gonna happen 5 years from now ? If you're really that paranoid maybe you're better off not investing in
any products at all since even your home electricity can't be guaranteed and hey.. that would render just about anything in your home useless remember?

As for methods i've no problem with whatever Oleg decides since its up to them, but most likely we'll see a master server for the online play
this time around which automatically will prevent hackers from playing online unless the server binaries gets released to the public and hacked.

Come off your high horse, zauii. You call me a "wannabe pirate"? Short-sighted guys like you are the reason publishers like Ubisoft are getting away with their DRM BS. If you are so eager to sign away your own rights as PC owner and user (I am not talking about the program, yet) then I really wish you a future in which every game you want to play does cost a montly fee just to show you the true reason for such draconic DRM schemes. It's not about piracy, it's about implementing pay-to-play across the whole scale of gaming even for offline content. Wanna play SoW - North Africa? No problem, just 9,99€ a month. Enter credit card details here. Want to participate in Multiplayer? Upgrade your account to "Gold" for just 14,95 € a month.

This is the publishers' way of injecting themselves into the distribution process again, to create new ways of accumulating revenue and tying customers to themselves so that they can milk them for all the $ or € they can. This is the reason for such systems, not piracy, not the grossly inflated claims from the suits in the beancounter departments. I have no issues with paying a sensible amount of money to make aircraft types flyable (like RoF does), but I will not grant a game development company or publisher (especially the latter) the right to milk me for marketing data, force me to violate a very fundamental security measure just for playing a game.

[zauii]

Originally Posted by csThor

Come off your high horse, zauii. You call me a "wannabe pirate"? Short-sighted guys like you are the reason publishers like Ubisoft are getting away with their DRM BS. If you are so eager to sign away your own rights as PC owner and user (I am not talking about the program, yet) then I really wish you a future in which every game you want to play does cost a montly fee just to show you the true reason for such draconic DRM schemes. It's not about piracy, it's about implementing pay-to-play across the whole scale of gaming even for offline content. Wanna play SoW - North Africa? No problem, just 9,99€ a month. Enter credit card details here. Want to participate in Multiplayer? Upgrade your account to "Gold" for just 14,95 € a month.

This is the publishers' way of injecting themselves into the distribution process again, to create new ways of accumulating revenue and tying customers to themselves so that they can milk them for all the $ or € they can. This is the reason for such systems, not piracy, not the grossly inflated claims from the suits in the beancounter departments. I have no issues with paying a sensible amount of money to make aircraft types flyable (like RoF does), but I will not grant a game development company or publisher (especially the latter) the right to milk me for marketing data, force me to violate a very fundamental security measure just for playing a game.

Right,

First and foremost the simulation market will probably disappear before anything like this even has the slightest chance of succeeding seeing
as it's such a niche within a niche you'd have to look for a game like Call of Duty to find something like this attempted.

And we've yet to see a Call of Duty with pay-per month have we?
Please go ahead and round up all the games that have migrated from a firm model into a pay-per-month milking model at a later stage?

Paranoia is all there is too it, nothing more nothing less and as stated the developers should take every precaution they can to protect their game / property.

If it comes down to a Monthly fee with future games, then you can make up your own mind at the time and just not pay,
I for once wouldn't pay for a fps or simulation per month, if the time comes you show this by not buying and using their products at that time.

Argumentation against DRM / Protection today is just a bunch of paranoia, nothing suggests that SOW or 1C will pursuit a model that is based around a monthly payment.
I feel its kinda equivalent to the current society paranoia that there are cameras everywhere and that the government controls your private life within a 10 year period... pathetic.

However if a model like this would be attempted they would have to come up with something tempting for the customers such as major support, constant updates of content, patches
similar to an MMO, which in the end many people might be completely fine with, if we get enough support , extra content constantly along with community features. Nothing i personally would like
but their not just gonna pop up with a new business model tomorrow and magically hope for customers to accept it.

[csThor]

Are you really that obtuse? Introducing pay-to-play isn't a quick and dirty process, it's slow and will be done step by step because otherwise publishers are afraid to alienate the people and loose income. So they're doing it bit by bit and wait for the users to get used to the latest stage. Or have you taken a look at M$ online services for the XBox? Think that and go one step further ... Cloud computing, no longer purchasing a DVD (or whatever) but a key to access the software running on a remote server. A publisher's wet dream.

Zauii ... I'm not opposed to anti-piracy measures but these have to work without impeding the use by an honest customer. DRM does not do this job, it's all about limiting the user's rights and artificially injecting the publisher into the process (because in the times of the web the publisher is becoming more and more superfluous to the development process apart from financing it). I have said it before (though not in this thread) but I have nothing against a onetime online verification of my copy, kinda like Windows does after installing it, or even a periodical check (with me deciding if I allow the connection), but being forced to remain connected continuously is a step beyond a threshold I will not make. If this is the future of PC gaming then by all means I'm out of it.

[SG1_Gunkan]

Just an CD KEY to play online and that is the best solution. Perhaps a simple securom or similar and everyone happy.

The quality of SOW:BoB, will surelly generate a lot of money.

[robtek]

I also think a activation like windows would be bearable plus a password protected account for online play where the verification happens at the server of the publisher via the game-server.

[WTE_Galway]

Personally I have bought every release of IL2 and I have spent a lot of time releasing skinpacks and missions just to show support. I would never have done any of this if the game was pay to play or required online activation. My gaming machine is not online. I dislike the new approach to DRM with a passion.

The only reason I do not own Rise of Flight is the insidious DRM it came out with required online activation to play offline. Apparently the next release of RoF will now allow an offline mode. I may actually consider getting the next release of RoF if the DRM issue has been resolved.

Edit:

Actually if a 4.10 IL2 DVD came out with no copy protection I would immediately buy it even though I already have the IL2 1946 DVD and can download patches for free


I would also add that there is a THIRD unscrupulous method used by online games such as Evony which is to make the games totally free but sell in-game advantages to people that pay which make the non-payers uncompetitive.

[AKA_Tenn]

i don't mind online activation, i do mind having a limit on the amount of activations i can do... i format my hard drive a lot, i'd hate to have to keep buying new copies just because i had to re-install my game a few times.

also i don't have a credit card, so having in-game items that require one to buy them would be bad.

generally games fail when you have to not only pay for them, but even after you pay for them you find out its not "really" free to play, you still gotta pay even more to actually be competitive (to actually play). the only in-game items that you should be able to purchace are ones that don't effect the gameplay and don't give anyone anywhere an advantage... like skins... or maybe a different reflector sight, that kinda thing... at least for online gameplay...

and the idea where u get a totally useless game for free, but u can pay for addons... just doesn't make sense for a combat flight sim u wanna be able to see all the glory right off the bat, not get shot down and lose all the time in some useless crappy assed plane... that'd make u not wanna buy the game, instead u'd never wanna look at it again.

maybe doing something like Aces high does... (or used to do) where u have a free 8 player game mode, and u can play offline, but u don't get the glory of playing with everyone in the big online campeign unless u pay for it. it would solve the problems for the few and far between people in the places so rural they don't have broadband internet, and also allow for something like a battle.net type lobby.(im talking more like the diablo 1 type battle.net, not the warcraft 3 type one)

[janpitor]

I think you are speaking about rise of flight. If you buy rise of flight, you dont get any crappy planes. As I remember , when I bought it, it was Fokker VII, spad 13 and another two planes I dont remember, because I also bought some others. If you want, you can stay with four planes and will be totally competitive.
Creation of planes needs enormous effort and money, and somebody has to pay for it. It isnt like in il2´s days. The economy has changed a bit. And the complexity of planes just so.

Originally Posted by AKA_Tenn

i don't mind online activation, i do mind having a limit on the amount of activations i can do... i format my hard drive a lot, i'd hate to have to keep buying new copies just because i had to re-install my game a few times.

also i don't have a credit card, so having in-game items that require one to buy them would be bad.

generally games fail when you have to not only pay for them, but even after you pay for them you find out its not "really" free to play, you still gotta pay even more to actually be competitive (to actually play). the only in-game items that you should be able to purchace are ones that don't effect the gameplay and don't give anyone anywhere an advantage... like skins... or maybe a different reflector sight, that kinda thing... at least for online gameplay...

and the idea where u get a totally useless game for free, but u can pay for addons... just doesn't make sense for a combat flight sim u wanna be able to see all the glory right off the bat, not get shot down and lose all the time in some useless crappy assed plane... that'd make u not wanna buy the game, instead u'd never wanna look at it again.

maybe doing something like Aces high does... (or used to do) where u have a free 8 player game mode, and u can play offline, but u don't get the glory of playing with everyone in the big online campeign unless u pay for it. it would solve the problems for the few and far between people in the places so rural they don't have broadband internet, and also allow for something like a battle.net type lobby.(im talking more like the diablo 1 type battle.net, not the warcraft 3 type one)

[zauii]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Personally I have bought every release of IL2 and I have spent a lot of time releasing skinpacks and missions just to show support. I would never have done any of this if the game was pay to play or required online activation. My gaming machine is not online. I dislike the new approach to DRM with a passion.

The only reason I do not own Rise of Flight is the insidious DRM it came out with required online activation to play offline. Apparently the next release of RoF will now allow an offline mode. I may actually consider getting the next release of RoF if the DRM issue has been resolved.

Edit:

Actually if a 4.10 IL2 DVD came out with no copy protection I would immediately buy it even though I already have the IL2 1946 DVD and can download patches for free


I would also add that there is a THIRD unscrupulous method used by online games such as Evony which is to make the games totally free but sell in-game advantages to people that pay which make the non-payers uncompetitive.

Well it's up to each and everyone, your loss to miss out on RoF or IL2 if you would've chosen to go down that road, can't say that i believe the developers care. If a DRM would stop you from buying a great title, that is kinda sad itself...
I presume if SOW comes out with online activation you're gonna skip it, even after waiting for years for the game? Even if its a great game itself a DRM will simply stop you?
That is kinda sad itself, but yet again who cares..you're the one missing out and the developers have made their call, live with it or don't buy it.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by zauii

The fun thing is that the so called "BS" are the people themselves that surround each other with something they claim to be "their rights", when there is no such thing here..
The developers make the game and they themselves alone have every right in the world to protect their own game/property in any way they see fit no matter how much you twist and turn it.

BS is only the talk of "wannabe pirates" scared that their product would be generated useless 5 years later, but let me enlighten you, we live in 2010 a time when protection is necessary.

Why would you be so worried about whats gonna happen 5 years from now ? If you're really that paranoid maybe you're better off not investing in
any products at all since even your home electricity can't be guaranteed and hey.. that would render just about anything in your home useless remember?

As for methods i've no problem with whatever Oleg decides since its up to them, but most likely we'll see a master server for the online play
this time around which automatically will prevent hackers from playing online unless the server binaries gets released to the public and hacked.

The funny thing is: The second hand market in used games is a bigger "loss" in revenue than piracy. Of course the developers whant a slice of that cake to.

Are they intitled to? No, not morally nor legally.

The piracy ghost is made up horseshit to give them the "right" to implement any control of an allredy sold item, legal or not. If its not legal they lobby to make it so, and "people" like u make it doable becaus u bye into theire whining about lost revenue when its not even thire buissnes what happens to a product once they sell it.


Once again, do they have a legal leg to stand on? ONLY if we as costumers bye into the garbage.



For fun, name one other company/segment geared towards mainstream consumer who would even get close to getting away with this bs. Cardealerships? Electronics? How about PC`s? Or music?


What so special about game developers?


Edit: Activation key done once when u install a new game is a far cry from constant internet connection. As far as iv read and heard constant internet connection to be able to play a game u bought, offline or online, isnt even legal when push comes to shove.