Smoother normal game play - warrior, paladin, or mage

[ckdamascus]

It is funny you should mention that, lore. My previous impossible mage tries consisted of the Unholy Rainbow Dragon Force (red, black, green, bone) and demonologists.

With the proper tactics, can beat the normal stuff, but the bosses, eek, forget about it.

Well, maybe if I had the right resist gear...

[Zechnophobe]

Originally Posted by loreangelicus

Hi N3MES1S, I have always wondered how a level 4-5 only army fares against mass-attacking bosses, namely Zilgadis/K'Tahu/Baal. Could you tell me your experience with regards to these bosses (ie. level you fought them, how many turns to end the battle, any losses, what units you used)?

I'm asking this because against other enemies, be they regular enemies or hero-enhanced ones, I think one is spoiled with a bunch of tactics that work towards no-loss; it seems it is only the boss fights against the top 3 bosses that require superior tactics.

Well, I don't really agree there. Pretty much each boss is defeated by stoneskin + Eviln. Or RepairDroid-RepairDroid.

The real difference between bosses and non bosses, is that your strategies for bosses MUST revolve around resurrecting your troops (especially the final three) because you simply can't keep them completely intact otherwise.

My experience is that Zilgadis can be beaten without massive army change (just need high resist magic gear). Ktahu and Baal though, require a different formation for zero loss, or slight modification for minor losses.

[loreangelicus]

Originally Posted by Zechnophobe

Well, I don't really agree there. Pretty much each boss is defeated by stoneskin + Eviln. Or RepairDroid-RepairDroid.

The real difference between bosses and non bosses, is that your strategies for bosses MUST revolve around resurrecting your troops (especially the final three) because you simply can't keep them completely intact otherwise.

My experience is that Zilgadis can be beaten without massive army change (just need high resist magic gear). Ktahu and Baal though, require a different formation for zero loss, or slight modification for minor losses.

Hmmm... a matter of terminology then? I consider a tactic superior if it flexible enough to work against most if not all of the enemies in the game to hand you either a quick or no-loss victory, moreso if it gives you both. And I would rank these criteria in this order:

1) flexibilty (it is of prime importance that it works against all enemy encounters)
2) no-loss (keeping your army intact without re-supplying)
3) speed (battles should be decisive and quick)

What do you consider as a superior tactic?

[Zechnophobe]

I would consider a superior tactic the average of those things across all battles you fight.

Black-knight armies take a long time to finish off an opponent, so do repair-droids. They are flexible (due to being a resurrection strategy) but not horribly fast. Yes, in the three hardest battles, they remain effective. But I don't really consider it superior when it is so slow every other fight.

[ckdamascus]

Please don't remind me of the horror of dual droid stacks with cross healing against physical resistant enemies....

But, thanks for pointing it out, since I am not quite sure what is "fast" and what is not. Everyone has different standards.

I thought black knights were fast in killing (I mean, if you teleport them to the target) due to their Rising Fury super critical hits?

[loreangelicus]

I hear you both Zechnophobe/ckdamascus. I scour these forums for good tactics, and I do try to experiment as well to see if I could discover and contribute something new.

ckdamascus, you may have seen some posts concerning solo strategies using black knights + stone skin + eviln. The strategy is effective, albeit a bit slow in finishing fights simply because you are using just one unit. This is somewhat compensated by the shard from Moro Dark that gives the unit unlimited retaliation, but the focused damage of enemies and enemy spell effects do take their toll on single unit tactics.

And this is the reason why I do not solo with black knights; you may be guaranteed to win all fights at no-loss (and even then, be prepared to change tactics a bit when you encounter heroes that dispel your stone skin, or those that cast spells like sheep), but you need to prepare for some long boss fights.

I have tried merging different tactics, namely black knights/bone dragons/droids, but the lineup has a large hiccup when taking on Zilgadis.

Oh well, maybe I'll try experimenting some more with different lineups/tactics if I do decide to play the game again as a mage.

[ivra]

If the primary goal is a quick and efficient fight, then I think a mage using Armageddon + Time Back is the way to go. I was able to complete the fight against Moro in just 4 turns with no losses. Of course, the downside with this is that there is no time to dig for treasures and that you tend to be empty of mana when the battle is over... Also, the strategy does not work for bosses.

Out of curiosity, has any of you managed to down Moro in fewer turns with no losses, using another strategy?

More info here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=13933

[loreangelicus]

Originally Posted by ivra

If the primary goal is a quick and efficient fight, then I think a mage using Armageddon + Time Back is the way to go. I was able to complete the fight against Moro in just 4 turns with no losses. Of course, the downside with this is that there is no time to dig for treasures and that you tend to be empty of mana when the battle is over... Also, the strategy does not work for bosses.

Out of curiosity, has any of you managed to down Moro in fewer turns with no losses, using another strategy?

More info here:
http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=13933

Hi ivra, I did get to read on your armageddon-time back tactic before, and was thinking of doing a variant of it if ever I do a mage playthrough.

I think that you may have something here, and maybe you just need to lessen the casting of armageddon so that you don't kill them TOO QUICKLY; to give you time to dig up treasure and generate mana.

Perhaps this tactic could be done with red dragons instead of archdemons? I have read somewhere of someone finishing the game with just a single stack of reds, and someone is even attempting to finish the game with just a single red dragon. That way, you don't need to change lineups against bosses, although I doubt doing a chain of armageddons would take out the high hit point bosses on impossible difficulty.

It took me 13 rounds to take out Moro Dark at no-loss using the undead-droid lineup (see attached screenshot). I did dig up all 3 chests though, and it was far from being a serious battle (1 attempt). It is also a sustainable tactic, you could easily end battles with max rage and mana, very handy if you are chain-fighting 5 consecutive hero/boss battles using Ancient Knowledge.

[ivra]

The focus was on doing a quick battle. I only tested it. Since I want to dig every battle in my games, I agree that it needs to be slowed down so that to does not end too quickly - but that is easy with archdemons since they are the quickest unit in the game. In terms of the quickest possible battle (not including bosses) I cannot think of a quicker strategy. Armageddon + Time Back is very efficient.

I do not think it will work with a single red dragon. The reason is that a mage with a high int does too much damage even with Armageddon 1 (they have no resistance against astral damage). The dragon will die and the battle is over. But using a single red dragon and casting spells like Death Star and Geyser might work. The reason I bring a full stack of archdemons when using the Armageddon strategy is that almost half of the stack dies from friendly fire In theory any stack will do as long as it survives the armageddon and the enemy attacks. It might even be doable using peasants!

[Zechnophobe]

I honestly don't recall exactly how long my last fight with Moro was. But a full power Fiery Phantoms each turn probably went through his black dragons pretty quick (Those are the hardest of his stacks to kill).

I am guessing it took more than 4 turns though. Maybe 5 or 6.

Also, in regards to Speed and Black Knights:

BK's do a lot of damage per hit, but you only get one attack (plus retaliation) per round, and it only hits one person. Black/red Dragons will almost always hit at least 2 people on their turn, and then light them on fire for more damage. You can also cast Oil Mist if you need more raw damage (Great against demons). In fact, all dragons have at least one way to hit more than one target on the first turn.

And between Bone and Black/Red, your opponents will often be both on fire, and poisoned.