Bangladesh 1971 Air Combat Simulator request to Oleg

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by airmalik

Some pictures of Sabres and Hunters I took last year at Oshkosh:

I don't know what those are, but they're not Hawker Hunters, this is a (dual control?) Hunter.



The noses may look somewhat similar, but the tails are different and the wings aren't swept. They could be some sort of conversion trainer version, but it's not a fighter variant.

Nice photos, no offence intended, it's just those don't look like typical Hunters to me.

[Qpassa]

I would prefer Spanish Civil War (1936-1939)

[Lonely Ringer]

airmalik those are Dragon Flys, T-37 built by Cessna as a light trainer flown by VNAF in Nam.... side by side seating , had one land in Phu Bai when I was there and walked around it counting the number of holes in the tail section ( over 40) the VNAF pilots had nearly run out of fuel , they refuled and took off .... holes and all . So one cannot believe anything you have to say if you cannot do your home work any better than that ....
They made great ground support AC with straight wings could run tree top level 100 mph slower than conventional jets. mini guns in the nose and rockets and could loiter longer .... hence the one landing at Phu Bai was shot to swiss cheese ... those guys were tryin really hard to support their ground troops whose basic training graduation was not on some manicured parade field but a hump in the bush for real ..... if you look on the tail at the yellow and red stripes .... yep VN combat braggin rights... these two earned em flying in Nam....

Happy Trails
Lonely Ringer
John 3:16

[zakkandrachoff]

Originally Posted by airmalik

As someone that lived through that conflict, I'd love to see this but you have no idea what you'd be getting into Luft/spit whining would pale in comparison to the reaction you'd get from natives of both countries complaining about favoring one side or the other.

There's hardly an unbiased source of information about any of the conflicts between the two countries. Even wikipedia articles read like propaganda pieces.

The 1971 conflict would be interesting with the preemptive strikes by the PAF but more interesting would be the 1964 conflict which was fought on the west front and produced exciting events like the (disputed) 5 Hawker Hunter kills by a PAF pilot in under a minute:

Great reading even if it might partially be fictional

http://www.defencejournal.com/2001/september/alam.htm

Alam had lost sight of the other Hunters, but with ample fuel he was prepared to fly some distance to catch up with them. Soon after crossing the Chenab River, his wingman Akhtar called out, “Contact, Hunters one o’clock.” They were flying at 100-200 feet and around 480 knots. As Alam closed into gunfire range, the Hunters did a half-hearted defensive turn which did nothing to spoil his aim; rather, it set them up in line astern for easy shooting in a row. Alam fired at the last Hunter against the glow of the rising sun and saw fuel spew out of the drop tanks, which had taken hits from the Sabre’s six guns. In a hurry to score fast, Alam shifted his aim ahead onto the next aircraft and fired another short burst. The Hunters seemed to fly across Alam’s gunsight like a gaggle of geese, and he obliged repeatedly, four times in all.

This conflict, like the later 1971 one, was very short lived with epic tank and air battles. I think the shortness of the conflict might actually make for a good sim scenario. Both sides were limited by resources but more so the smaller country of Pakistan and a proper campaign engine with resource mgmt would make this quite interesting.

Some air combat stats (again, disputed) about the 1971 conflict:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_...a_Pakistan_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakista...a-Pakistan_War

During the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 the PAF was out-numbered 5:1 against the Indian Air Force and, initially, both sides claimed to have downed around 100 aircraft of the opposition during the 23 day war. The PAF fleet at the time consisted of 12 F-104 Starfighters, some 120 F-86 Sabres and around 20 B-57 Canberra bombers.[8] The Indian claim of 100 PAF aircraft downed was proven to be highly exaggerated when 86 F-86 Sabres, 10 F-104 Starfighters and 20 B-57 Canberra bombers were flown in a parade after the war.

The best reason, however, for a sim based on this conflict might be the opportunity to dogfight in the Himalayas! I don't think current technology would do that landscape justice though.

I know , 1965 war in the west or 1971 in the west too. I was saying Bangladesh to get all in only one small scenario without big city's like are India and Pakistan in the west Front. Bangladesh is not so big. For me, is the perfect for a Dogfight and big operations like I do in LOMAC. I not understand what Lonely Ringer said about that " is only 1 to 2 weeks only of combat". what about it!?. Storm Of War Battle of Britain only goanna takes 3months. I like more India Pakistan Air combat that Korean War in were North Korea only have Mig-15 and a ww2 fighter. And Allies have more than 10 jet planes whit radar, ground attack and more. Don't like. And I am tired of Israeli conflict. I think is a good chance to get a really good air combat whit medley could war jets. AAA, of course, nobody like the idea because this is orient conflict. No USAF, no RAF, no Luftwaffe, No Jewish, of course, of course. I don't care so much that, only equal air forces.
MIG-21 shooting down F-104


here is a link of air victories and losses.
http://www.pakdef.info/pakmilitary/a.../airloses.html

If somebody know about another similar conflict, but similar, not Vietnam, please write about it.

[airmalik]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

I don't know what those are, but they're not Hawker Hunters, this is a (dual control?) Hunter.

You're right. They're not Hawker Hunters as Lonely Ringer has also pointed out. I'm not familiar with Dragonflys in fact, until now I never associated Cessna with military aircraft.

cheers

[zakkandrachoff]

Originally Posted by airmalik

You're right. They're not Hawker Hunters as Lonely Ringer has also pointed out. I'm not familiar with Dragonflys in fact, until now I never associated Cessna with military aircraft.

cheers

The DragonFly is very famous in Southamerica, here in Argentina no: we have the crappy Pucara, Pampa and Mohawk for Ground Attack role: But in the other country operate the DragonFly

Chile air force

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Originally Posted by zakkandrachoff

The DragonFly is very famous in Southamerica, here in Argentina no: we have the crappy Pucara, Pampa and Mohawk for Ground Attack role: But in the other country operate the DragonFly

No, right now the "other countries" either operate or are planning to acquire Super Tucanos.

The Pucará is far from being crappy - its ageing, true, but it's not crappy at all.

Pampa is just a trainer, so you can't really compare.

About the Mohawk, didn't know they still operated that. Man, that's old...

[Lonely Ringer]

Mohawk..sister MI unit flew them , Officer pilot in left seat and enlisted TO in the right seat operating the FLIR.. if the pilot got hit the enlisted would have to fly it so they got the training but not the rank ... funny looking AC for sure flown by 73rd Avn Co Vung Tau and the 131st MI Co out of Phu Bai....
see here [URL="http://www.ov-1.com/"]

There were a lot of different AC used in SEA , shame Oleg does not have time or inclination but do not blame him ((( and thirdwire did no justice at all to this period of aviation ))) ... helo's,jets,turbo fan's, recips, covering a 12 year time period, 5 ( not including communist) nations and would be awsome challenge indeed.

[K_Freddie]

If we're going to understand world conflict.. it would be educational to the Westerners (like myself - I've vaguely heard of this) to understand the significance of this, just as Oleg has made the Eastern Front a reality.

After all didn't the Indian Air Force kick US butt in a simulated conflict(edt- this doesn't take much - no insult to the indians).
This is not to undermine the Pakistani defences, who are by no means inferior in the local context.

It'll be great to hear from local people in these areas

[76.IAP-Blackbird]

Try Strike Fighters 2 all planes are covered and Terrain is WIP