Is Zero Losses on Normal Mage possible in KB:AP? - Page 2

Elwin · #11 11-23-2009, 09:01 AM

I am lvl 14 mage with 3,7k leadership ... including medal for 50 battles ... Leadership hads nothing to do with difficulty ..

cicobuff · #12 11-23-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwin

I am lvl 14 mage with 3,7k leadership ... including medal for 50 battles ... Leadership hads nothing to do with difficulty ..

I'm lvl18 with about 5+k. Playing on normal only though.

Hmmmm, I don't find that "leadership don't matter" strictly true. Bigger stacks allow me to wipe out opposing stacks more easily. Also, reduces chances of enemy heroes casting a random direct spell against me if I can finish the battle quicker.

My mage just does not have the capability to wipe out stacks with spells alone. I'm relying a lot on slow/helplessness/bless/paladin's resurrect etc to help me. Maybe that's why I'm having problems.

Should I have loaded up on Chaos Magic 3 and fire dmg boosters and nuke the enemy instead?

DGDobrev · #13 11-23-2009, 09:13 AM

Normal no-loss mage is completely plausible. You will need to employ some "strange" tactics.

Try to do a lot of map stealing and do quests that do not involve fighting. That will get you well within level 18-20 if you do it properly and get all the way to Reha. You may lose a week, but it is worth it. You will most certainly end up with a bunch of dragon eggs, tirex eggs, a lot of paladins, lizards, etc., as well as some decent spells, 200k+ gold (that's on impossible, so on normal it will be at least 350k), cool artifacts and so on. You do need to be careful, to save often and be nimble

As for the dragon eggs that hatched chicken, that is a prank. however those chicken lay golden eggs. They will not lay them for you, but they are sold for 2500 in the castles. The Dwarf on Tekron has a special line in the dialogue with him, with amelie asking why the dragon eggs are so cheap. Try it out. The normal dragon eggs cost over 10k. Those were only 2k. You should expect some foul play here

As for the spells it is completely up to a personal preference. In the beginning, your mage will not be that effective. Its true firepower shows around lvl 35+, where you will be able to upgrade some of the items and stock up on intellect. If you expect to do some damage with 10-15 int, you won't be able to, so I'd rather use debuffs at that time and an occasional 2x flaming arrow to boost the fire mage medal and grant myself some extra mana.

EDIT: As for the leadership doesn't matter, I totally support that it doesn't. Provided you have good tactical thinking and know your spells and army well, you can win a battle with an enemy that outnumbers you threefold without losses

cicobuff · #14 11-23-2009, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGDobrev

Normal no-loss mage is completely plausible. You will need to employ some "strange" tactics.

Try to do a lot of map stealing and do quests that do not involve fighting. That will get you well within level 18-20 if you do it properly and get all the way to Reha. You may lose a week, but it is worth it. You will most certainly end up with a bunch of dragon eggs, tirex eggs, a lot of paladins, lizards, etc., as well as some decent spells, 200k+ gold (that's on impossible, so on normal it will be at least 350k), cool artifacts and so on. You do need to be careful, to save often and be nimble

As for the dragon eggs that hatched chicken, that is a prank. however those chicken lay golden eggs. They will not lay them for you, but they are sold for 2500 in the castles. The Dwarf on Tekron has a special line in the dialogue with him, with amelie asking why the dragon eggs are so cheap. Try it out. The normal dragon eggs cost over 10k. Those were only 2k. You should expect some foul play here

As for the spells it is completely up to a personal preference. In the beginning, your mage will not be that effective. Its true firepower shows around lvl 35+, where you will be able to upgrade some of the items and stock up on intellect. If you expect to do some damage with 10-15 int, you won't be able to, so I'd rather use debuffs at that time and an occasional 2x flaming arrow to boost the fire mage medal and grant myself some extra mana.

EDIT: As for the leadership doesn't matter, I totally support that it doesn't. Provided you have good tactical thinking and know your spells and army well, you can win a battle with an enemy that outnumbers you threefold without losses

Thanks DGDobrev, you may have confirmed my fears. That is my mage has taken on wrong skills.

I'm at level 18 right now and is finding progress with zero loss not possible =(.
I think I may have gotten about 200-300k in total with some nice items. Now I'm finding it extremely difficult to progress. Everything is Very Strong. I just can kill them fast enough before they reach my lines.

I was thinking that I probably took on the wrong skills. Seeing your reply now confirms it. Sigh. Time for a restart, at least I take the knowledge with me in my new game. =)

DGDobrev · #15 11-23-2009, 09:24 AM

If you restart, get a game with verona map near the bridge on scarlet wind and try to learn to kite away map guardians. The tactics thread has some nice info on how to do it. You will be amazed where your mage's gonna go using some stealth and guille

It takes a while to accomplish it, though.

cicobuff · #16 11-23-2009, 10:05 AM

After having a shower and thinking through some of the tips here.

I know where I went wrong. I had taken on some mind tree skills thinking that they are useful but ended up squandering my runes.

I should have gone heavy Order and Distortion magic instead. With res at lvl 3, I can then take my time finishing up battles without losses.

I had instead taken a hybrid approach, thinking that Chaos 3 would help me but as has been pointed out, it's useless at beginning to even mid game.

Ok restart. As ANOTHER MAGE =).

I do engage in luring away guardians with limited success. It was enough to get me to map 6 I think, although I only managed to clear 3 maps.

Zhuangzi · #17 11-23-2009, 10:12 AM

I think Order and Distortion are very important no matter what class you are (but especially for the mage). Magic runes are a chronic problem for me as a Warrior - I have Order and Distortion 2 but I could really use level 3 for both. I won't bother with Chaos at all.

I know that leadership isn't everything, but it really, really helps. Especially when you think that the leadership effects how many Paladins and Inquisitors you can have, which in turn increases your Resurrection power.

cicobuff · #18 11-23-2009, 10:16 AM

I guess I'll change my mind and I'll not go so hardcore on my first play through and start with a normal Warrior instead to avoid frustration. Maybe mage after my first game =).

DGDobrev · #19 11-23-2009, 10:30 AM

Zhuangzi is right. As a warrior, you can skill Chaos magic at all (or maybe put lvl 1 in it only for sacrifice). The most important skill in the magic tree for both warrior and paladin classes is the summoning skill. It imporves the summoned creatures by the phantom spell by up to 50%. You well know what that means

Elwin · #20 11-23-2009, 10:39 AM

Well i am at similiar point .. Almost everything very strong i have cleraed easier enemys on rusty achor and hoped to have some kills in verona but they are kinda to strong ... leadership matters ...
Of course with decent spells you can kill army much bigger than yours .. but you must have it .. and i dont .. I have tried sneaking but kinda failes ... my brother somehow managed to steal umkas map in verona and he got plenty of royal throns there but i kinda have serious problem to steal any map now ... and those who i could manage to kill with no loss contained verona map so i ended with having only stupid scrolls ..