HoM&M V Vs. King's Bounty Vs. HoM&M V: Tribes of the East

[Elwin]

There is slow, it always been in homm series. Other mostly not but hell, that is good its diferrent.

[Vilk]

Ok slow but how different it is, slow is at best at high end developement 40% slower in homm5. Is this really useful when in kbtl against many units the result is they move of only 1 with a real tactical effect.

On resources managements it's sure that kbtl has problem, I don't mean complex resources system is required but troops resources aren't that well design in kbtl.

For battles design, different is a little quick, different but also much more subtle and interesting in kbtl.

EDIT: A bit out of topic, but not fully, the best would be that I could check a homm5 forum where there are interesting exchanges about battles tactics (and strategic too). Anyone can provide such link?

EDIT2: To be clear, I didn't wrote homm5 wasn't a good game not even it wasn't as good than kbtl, only that battles are very far to have the same finesse. Good game anyway... I'm just playing it.

EDIT3: I have to admit the game is captivating and despite see the next fight coming is a bit tedious because they are a bit repetitive. But I also quote some finesse points like a complex initiative system (kbtl doesn't do better with Cry Battle, Stone Skin, Fit of Energy, initiative and wait system) and more over more tools linked like lower enemy initiative. The RPG mood of first campaign is interesting.

[themaster]

If you’re smart you want to play homm3 or homm2 (homm2 is the best.. specially with CDDA music)

Homm5 tribes of the east is the best/prettiest.. but overall the AI sucks.. the game lags and I think all homm5 campaigns blow chunks.. but that's just me..

Basically homm5 is very pretty.. with absolutely no worthwhile or limited game play (get's boring fast)

I'd rather play king's bounty again.. modded with extra hardness then play homm5..

[Vilk]

I probably already played homm3... about music, most often I put it off in any game. About music I prefer stuff like that:
http://www.deezer.com/fr/music/izia/...ia/izia-293970

[garzahd]

I played HOMM5 quite a lot after it was first released, but not much with the most recent expansion. In general I would argue that KB:TL has a far better single-player campaign, but I do enjoy HOMM's multiplayer.

I can answer most of these questions:

Originally Posted by Vilk

• So I'm not wrong, no Time Back, no Target, no mass sleep.
• But there's invisibility? What homm5 spell?

No mass sleep, but there is a single-target sleep (Blind). And KBTL doesn't really have true mass sleep either ... you can defend against the dryad one by simply having L4+ units. Time Back, Target, and Invis don't exist in HOMM5 because playing against a human opponent makes those hard to enforce.

Originally Posted by Vilk

• There's walls to put obstacles like wall or ice thorns? I only saw fire wall and that's totally different.
• There's slow? I saw haste but not slow. Some spell effect can freeze and at highest level that's a 100% chance but still that's not slow you use for a pure tactical meaning with a low mana cost.

The new expansion (Tribes of the East) added a spell to place obstacles; it didn't exist before then. Haste and Slow both exist in HOMM5, and they're more powerful because they affect the number of actions you get rather than when those actions occur. To pick an extreme example, hasted blood furies vs slowed zombies, the furies would get roughly 5 times as many actions.

Originally Posted by Vilk

• There's free mass cannon fooder summon with zero mana cost? Sure the game allows summon, any game does, but for no mana cost, that makes all the difference and there's that in homm5?

All demon units have a once-per-battle ability to summon reinforcements at no mana cost (like thorns in KB except without the corpse or adjacency requirement). The reinforcements take 1 turn to arrive, then another turn before they get to act, so they're not universally awesome. Demon heroes get a series of upgrades that affect demon summoning speed and which units have unlocked the ability to summon. Other mana-based summoning includes the Summon Elementals spell and Phantom Forces (which is like KB's Phantom spell except the summoned units have 50% evasion and 1 hp, but no time limit). All variants of summoned units in HOMM5 are not "required" to be killed to win the battle; they'll persist even if their creator dies, but if one side has only summoned units remaining, they automatically lose.

Originally Posted by Vilk

• There's field armor that disable any movements? Pure field armor is just another protection spell.
• Is there magic spring? That's a rather complicate way to restore some mana during a battle but that's what make it fun. I haven't quote any stuff like that in homm5.

Assuming that by "field armor" you mean Glot's armor, no that doesn't exist in HOMM5. The closest thing, Arcane Armor, doesn't prevent movement but does allow a portion of the incoming damage to still hurt the target stack. The rage mechanic of the new orc race in Tribes of the East also works this way.
Magic Spring doesn't exist, but Elder Druids have a once-per-battle ability to dump their entire mana pool into the hero's mana pool. This is handy because creature mana always regenerates at the start of every fight while hero mana does not.

Originally Posted by Vilk

• Is there mass Magic Shackles that block magic talents of enemy troops? Well units seems not have many stuff like talent but also I didn't quote any spell like that in homm5.
• Enemy teleporting isn't teleporting, is really homm5 has that? In KBTL it's only through the use of Archmage skill but that's still huge and very interesting in a tactical point of view.

Magic Shackles doesn't exist.
As for Teleport, it's a Light Magic spell, which means anyone can get it, not just Archmages. (Dark-oriented casters, like undead or demons, would have a harder time finding it, and would have to rely on a map feature to learn it.) Some heroes can learn Teleport Assault, which basically gives an instant boost of haste to the teleported unit, so they jump ahead in turn order.

Originally Posted by Vilk

• Is homm5 units has choices for attacking or using a non attacking talent? That adds a lot to finesses of battles and homm5 seems not have that.
• Gift, can you in homm5 have units get back all its special talents?
• Fit of Energy, is in homm5 you can make a unit attack a second time during same round?

Non-attacking talents are quite abundant; priests, liches, shadow matriarchs, all demon units with summoning, sprites, druids and mages are a few examples.
Gift and Fit of Energy do not exist in HOMM5 (Though Fit of Energy, to some extent, works similarly to haste and teleport assault, because those affect quantity of actions instead of turn order.)

[Vilk]

I see you know quite well this game. Well currently I gave up played it more, mainly because of battles. I'll try something else, perhaps Warlords IV that seems have better battles. I read units had all 4 special actions, they level up, the IA is relatively well done and I read few comments mentioning that the battle system was rather good and deep.

EDIT:
Some remarks about your comments:

• The mass sleep dryad and many KBTL effects aren't pvp design, that's already been mentioned in this threadn, homm5 pvp approach lower the solo game design quality. In KBTL the enemy don't have the choice to use level 4 units, you use sleep of dryad when the case is good that adds to tactical diversity.
• Good they add obstacles summon, too bad I haven't this addon because I'm using homm5 mac.
• I don't understand your comment about slow and haste. In homm5, if I understood well they don't affect only number of movements but also a little the initiative, as both are linked in homm5. In KBTL they affect only number of movement but on KBTL movements of 1 is a huge effect on KBTL battle boards. I didn't feel it the same and from far in homm5 for the slow spell. For haste ok it could be more powerful in homm5 but in practice slow involves much more tactical depth than haste.
• Summon based on mana and limited unit summon is rather different than unlimited summon there's in KBTL opening some cannon fooder tactics you can't apply otherwise.
• About teleporting enemy units I don't think homm5 has that unlike Archmage KBTL. Also KBTL has another minor enemy teleporting, well sort of it's some special attack that push back enemy, like for ghosts and cyclops. KBTL has also haste and normal teleporting spell.
• About fit of energy, I totally agree homm5 has some replacement through the complex initiative system.

[sMull]

One thing is for certain, the artwork of KB is miles beyond that of Heroes5. Honestly in that aspects Heroes5 looks like some budget game compared to KB. The maps are beautiful in KB.

[Ryder]

I finally upgraded my PC last year, started playing Heroes 5 after struggling to do so for ages. I got up to the last map inthe first campaign and then recieved Kings Bounty in the mail. One year later, HV still hasnt had a look in. There is no comparison.

I am playing Heroes 1 and 2 and also MM2 to MM6 whilst I wait for KB:AP however.

[vokmitsir]

Kings Bounty is a RPG game with a turn-based tactical battle system; HOMM is an strategy game with some RPG elements. Their combat system is similar and both have "heroes"

[Razorflame]

ha i rather play ANY homm than KB:TL

sure KB:TL was great once u finished it but afterwards there is nothing to be done

the maps stay the same
the unit combo's stay the same
even the spell u use will be the same


i really got bored of KB:TL after some extensive research on the game KB:TL is very limited without a multiplayer option or some variation in the quest

homm5 however is better in my eyes

you can use different hero builds to your liking

and the ai is tough sometimes to beat

any homm5 player remember the cultist? this map is a pain in the ass
took me several tries to get this map down the rest is rather easy

and to be honest i love to replay each homm from time to time..

but with KB:tl 2-3 months of extensive gaming and i all ended i don't feel the urge to play it again
it has no kicks in it anymore

everything has been done by either me or other players on this forum


homm is a far more extend universe