Shaman Karrakh quest chain..?! (Spoilers)

[Ryastar]

The way I look at things, the only troops really worth using are ones that i actually fear when they are in the opponent's army. The same reasons that make me fear them (ie. concentrate on killing them off asap), are the reasons that make them a worthy addition to my army. Think about it. I don't really think I should give my opinion on every troop, but here is mine on the orc units:

Goblins: annoying only from a minimal loss standpoint due to ranged attack, but very easy to dispose of, no specials at all. Not feared.

Raging goblins: again, only an annoyance, good init and speed, but damage and hp is average at best, iirc. Running is only special. Best saved to kill in 2nd round+. Not feared.

Cataputs: annoyance, but, to a mage, almost even less of one than goblins, because they are absurdly easy to destroy with fire spells (like fire rain, IMHO, the best attack spell in the game), to others, more of an annoyance, due to AOE fire attack ability, but damage from this is fairly low, and can be avoided simply by not grouping together. Not feared

Orcs: too slow, running doesn't help. High hp means will survive a little longer, but can't really do anything with the extra time it gives them. Not feared.

Veteran Orcs: second best unit in orc lineup, but still not amazing. Sure two attacks is nice, but the enemy gets one in the middle of those, and if they don't counter, the orcs only attack once. Dangerous enough to be a kill focus on 2nd round, but not on first, unless no shamans are present. Only somewhat feared.

Ogres: Same problems as orcs, slow and tough, but still easy to kill, if caution is used. Easiest way to deal with them is the trap spell. Only somewhat feared, mostly because of the one combat with ~100 of them, but everything is scary in large enough numbers (however, for some units (like peasants, for example) "large enough numbers" is in excess of 10000, and for peasants, 100000).

Note that my strategy is based around ranged/no retal/dragons/giants (the unit make up changes over time) and minimal losses, and that affects my opinion of all troops. To me, a big melee is inefficient, cause it will cost a lot of troops. I prefer to snipe with ranged units, strike and return with no retal units (strike one turn, return the next for most units, obviously) rather than have big beefy, slow units in the middle of a group of enemies. My giants are just used to block choke points, therefore facing only 1-2 enemy stacks at a time and also for earthquake.

That's my... wow, it seems like more than two cents this time, cause i wrote about 20 times more words. I guess this is my forty cent's worth, then. Payable in cash or credit card.

[Metathron]

I agree with most of what you said. However, I don't think the "fear factor" is always applicable. Sure I will choose to deal with enemy catapults by showering them with fire spells, but that doesn't mean the enemy (when there's a hero present) will do the same to my own catapults. Also, enemy catapults will often fire a regular shot first, rather than using their special right away, etc. So the catapults for me are actually worth more than they're worth as a threat. This goes for some other units as well.

Re: Furious goblins, I actually find them to be quite the threat, more so than their ranged counterpart, because they are incredibly tough and durable, coupled with their good speed and high numbers makes them pretty daunting. So for me, slow was always a must when dealing with them.

[taltamir]

the AI will never use units the same way a player would, so fear is not the only issue. But it is a pretty good analysis.

[Holywhippet]

Originally Posted by Metathron

I don't know, R., I kinda like the catapult, even if their short range (when not using their special) is annoying. And I've heard praise for veteran orcs, never tried them myself, though...

I used veteran orcs in the final battle for my first (and only) playthrough. They are a pretty good melee unit. Basically any enemy that counterattacks them gets hit a second time. Their stats are on par with other high end combat troops so they do a lot of damage in total.

[Madstrike]

I think veteran orcs are a good for the "target" spell, like any other always retaliates unit is. On top of that they have a good leadership/health/damage ratio, so I think that he works quite well for those who like to make full use of "target" like myself. Also worth mentioning that he has got 6 initiative which I think is a nice bonus. He is not amazing like royal griffins(who are best in a all human army) but he can work pretty well with other units, mainly for mages that is(casting target+stone skin ftw in the first turn)

[Vulture]

1. veteran orcs don't always retaliate. The only counter-attack an enemies retaliation. Once.
2. This thread has died more than 2 years ago. Nobody follows it anymore.
3. Between the Royal Griffins and the Veteran Orc there are about 3 or 4 better tanking units and some - depending on setup and talents - are even better than the Royal Griffin in the first place. Demons and Giants for example are better targets for "Target" because of their huge defense bonuses and in the case of the Demon because of the infinite retaliation and extreme damage output against lvl 1-3 units.

[Helios]

I see the dead thread alert, but I've been meaning to ask this: Giants can't be used with Target, can they? They're level 5 creatures, and ineligible, correct? I've seen them mentioned with Target several times on the forums, but they're level 5 for me. Were they upgraded in a patch or something?

[Vulture]

Why would level 5 creatures be exempt from the Target spell as a carrier ?
The level restriction only applies to the enemy ! Opposing level 5 creatures won't choose the troop you cast 'Target' on. Who you cast it on is completely free and without restrictions (except Black Dragons because of their magic immunity).

[Helios]

Wow, thanks! I thought that was a way to nerf the spell so level 5 units weren't too overpowered. I don't know why I thought that. I wish I knew that several games ago!

[Madstrike]

Originally Posted by Vulture

1. veteran orcs don't always retaliate. The only counter-attack an enemies retaliation. Once.
2. This thread has died more than 2 years ago. Nobody follows it anymore.
3. Between the Royal Griffins and the Veteran Orc there are about 3 or 4 better tanking units and some - depending on setup and talents - are even better than the Royal Griffin in the first place. Demons and Giants for example are better targets for "Target" because of their huge defense bonuses and in the case of the Demon because of the infinite retaliation and extreme damage output against lvl 1-3 units.

oh well, I guess u covered it all. I didnt try the veterans as targets, just thought they would work as (furious) guess I was wrong, in that case they dont seem too hot indeed. Never tried giants either, they seem like a good option. I liked using target on paladins though, since they have high ass defense(mastery) and high physical res, not to mention they can take care of their own damages and also heal others, and give others action points. Only downside to using them as targets is they dont have the furious ability, or some other ability that damages loads of enemies(like giants), also their init and speed is quite low, but that is ofc expected otherwise they would be way too powerful. Demons do seem pretty awesome, but I would need those skills from the mind skill tree to make it ok(morale decrease) with my other non demon units. In your opinion what would be best option for target if using the girls army?