The so called "no-loss" concept (whole game) is wrong and stupid.

[Zhuangzi]

I've 'been there done that' playing no-loss Impossible games of Armored Princess, so I can't be bothered trying to do the same for WoTN. And in actual fact, it means that I can relax without having to worry if I lose some units in a fight.

[zjazd18]

Well it's the case of ppl wanting bigger challenge and for me playing with losing units is too boring even on impossible coz you have enough gold and troops avaible to replenish your loses. There should be either very little troops in terms of quantity not the diversity or lack of gold then losing units would be somewhat relevant. As it is now u can just go buy back what u lost, and i cant find it fun to play. Also if the game is able to be completed no losses it doesnt automaticly means its easy, it means ppl find proper strategies, and for example first island really hinders strategies and rely mostly on RNG which is bad for an strategy game.

[Colbert30]

Why is it that some people find the way other people like to play their games so aggraviating, as to call it stupid? If you are having fun with the game, just let others do what they want.

That said, I will agree that there should be no complaining that a very tough challenge is very... tough. One that is not part of the challenges (achievements) designed for the game, to boot.

[tiberiu]

Originally Posted by zjazd18

Also if the game is able to be completed no losses it doesnt automaticly means its easy, it means ppl find proper strategies,

Can you give an example of a "proper strategy"?

Casting Phantom/Gift on a stack of Inquisitors the whole game ad-infinitum is proper strategy?
Or maybe using 1 Royal Snake to defeat 1000 polar bears Is proper strategy?
Multiplying units out of thin air at little to no cost is proper strategy? (Sacrifice)

I call these unbalanced and poorly implemented game features.

[zjazd18]

Originally Posted by tiberiu

Can you give an example of a "proper strategy"?

Casting Phantom/Gift on a stack of Inquisitors the whole game ad-infinitum is proper strategy?
Or maybe using 1 Royal Snake to defeat 1000 polar bears Is proper strategy?
Multiplying units out of thin air at little to no cost is proper strategy? (Sacrifice)

I call these unbalanced and poorly implemented game features.

Yeah it's called clever use of game mechanics, figuring that kind of stuff is what it's fun about it. Some things may seem lame, but no one is forcing you to use them. There should be plenty of ways to play this game, no-loss included.

[Fatt_Shade]

No loss never gave any special reward in whole game, except medal for no loss battle on start (50 battles, of 300+ in game isn`t even 15% game time and starting battles were ridiculous comparing later in term of difficulty).
I think it`s started as way to preserve units that werent available in game inn sufficient amount for hero lds (AP/CW you finish Bolo island quest go back to Debir return stone and get 5 paladins in some shop and you can lead 10 or more, or opposite go to Montero and find alchemists in 4 shops all together 5000+ of them, who the f..k need 5000 alchemists ???). So no loss is strategy itself keeping your army in best possible shape. You defeat enemy, but later spend some turns to resurrect losses before finishing that last pathetic enemy survivor and continue on next battle does seem a bit gay but fro any who want to go high score going back to other islands in search of units to restock this was only way of achieving it.
@tiberiu Mentioned infinite gift on inquisitors, sacrifice+time back . . . all great way to keep your army on full lds, but some1 had to figure that mechanics out it didnt come in game manual so i give respect to players who figure them out.
As for game balance features, better that then massively using cheats as is common in this time when every1 want all and right now without any effort.
In CW part of forum i answered on post where question was `How to easy defeat bone dragons on impossible, i`m going for no loss`. So contradicting himself he want easy way to do something, on impossible difficulty. That kind of players are retarded and stupid not those who figure out how to use what they have available in game rules to finish it (all no loss and other unbalanced things, it`s in game mechanics players didnt add it themselves).

EDIT : Afterthought about my better AI statement, i`ll advertise HoMM3 babies mod here a bit so pls be patient : Intellect description states that every point give you spell dmg and every 7 point 10% bonus, and every 15 points some spells last longer. WRONG this mechanic doesnt work in and KB game so far, but in HoMM3 mod it works great Mat there made interesting AI changes so high Int heroes can use doom/blind/stone skin all spells with lasting effects to more benefit because this change. But he also added some bonuses to enemy heroes - if attack is highest stats their units have bonus crit%, if defense then all units have some +resistances%, if intellect then enemy heroes have double spell cast like higher magic skill (all enemy heroes have some bonuses as if they have some skills or items equipped to improve their army). So example - enemy necromancer hero in Gray wastelands have 40 intellect can cast 3 spells per turn/have 20mana/turn regen and blind 2 mine units for 5 turns and cast mass weakness for -80% dmg. This all seams like acts of real human player and every enemy hero battle in that mod were really tough and interesting. i had some old saves without HoMM3 mod changes and i checked them. Every hero had same army as in mod leadership vise so mod didnt simply give x2 to x3 multipiler to enemy troop and make them harder to defeat by adding more enemy, but really made some great changes to game mechanics and AI of enemy heroes. Suppressing/upgrading items good luck towers are much harder, enemy elf heroes have quick draw skill so range units have +initiative and crit%, some magic heroes lower your resistances and spells are interesting to decimate your army , 2 new wives and completely changed kids (now they give individual bonuses) expl : marry Mirabella give bonuses to human units and get kid Ingham - priest/inquisitor +1moral/speed/initiative/-10% leadreship cost/+crit%/+20 hp or Edric - +8% defense to all units and griffin +1moral/speed/initiative/-18% leadership cost/+crit%/+18%hp. Every wife have 20+ kids so possibilities are great (or crap depending on your luck because you can play Warrior hero and get kids with bonuses to intellect and spells, or go Mage and get att/crit% and other battle bonuses useless to mage class
Some other changes in HoMM3 mod - rage spirits changed rage skills and max lvl is 40 GREAT fun
Mana/rage income =0 after 20 battle turn, so no more 100 turn battles to resurrect all units, what mana/rage you have at 20 turn that is all you`ll have to do with.

There i did no loss just to check if i can since it was much harder then impossible play in original the Legend, but it was great fun because i changed 8 wives and to get all kids you need 40 battles (1 kid after 10 battles then kiss and w8 for next with each wife (care to get kids with Rina she must stay in human form, after you get 4 kids change her to zombi and get great undead bonuses), and i changed my army completely 8 times. Did i go all archer army for 100crit% NO, did i go summoning galore to choke enemy units in summoned crap ? NO But i had great time trying all new things in game this mod brought.
So no loss is personal choice and it doesnt mean it`s obligatory but might be fun to see if you can manage it.

[Karlos]

Originally Posted by Colbert30

Why is it that some people find the way other people like to play their games so aggraviating, as to call it stupid? If you are having fun with the game, just let others do what they want.

That said, I will agree that there should be no complaining that a very tough challenge is very... tough. One that is not part of the challenges (achievements) designed for the game, to boot.

Cannot agree more, on both points.

I think attempting a no loss playthrough makes for en excruciatingly tedious game but if ppl like it why not. I even respect that on some level.

But dissing the game design just because the no loss playtrough on Impossible diff cannot be done is like complaining Bethesda doesn't "allow" you to finish Skyrim without taking a single point od dmg. A bit daft-headed I recon.

[Razorflame]

u know what people are just jealous they can't beat something on impossible where others can

the game is fine some people stated that ahriman was impossible to do on impossible

well gues what
people already found a way to kill him without losses

the next one is the necromancer also no big deal


u know what this games also has a LUCK factor in it
sometimes u just need to get lucky to get that extra soothsayer/spell/no damage spell caused by enemy hero


all of this means retry retry if you don't have the patience to do that sure i understand why u want a loss game. Because simply you won't be able to hide out the fact that there are people better than u in KB they have found ways to overcome even the most difficult of challenges!

You sir have no respect for the people that found those ways

and as for u saying a war always has casualties that is just a lie

i will give u one simple example
i america would nuke a bomb on any country u want
and declare 5 minutes before impact of the nuke it's WAR


well say goodbye to that country

at least if it's a small on

so america wouldn't have any losses

[tiberiu]

Originally Posted by Razorflame

u know what people are just jealous they can't beat something on impossible where others can

the game is fine some people stated that ahriman was impossible to do on impossible

well gues what
people already found a way to kill him without losses

the next one is the necromancer also no big deal


u know what this games also has a LUCK factor in it
sometimes u just need to get lucky to get that extra soothsayer/spell/no damage spell caused by enemy hero


all of this means retry retry if you don't have the patience to do that sure i understand why u want a loss game. Because simply you won't be able to hide out the fact that there are people better than u in KB they have found ways to overcome even the most difficult of challenges!

You sir have no respect for the people that found those ways

and as for u saying a war always has casualties that is just a lie

i will give u one simple example
i america would nuke a bomb on any country u want
and declare 5 minutes before impact of the nuke it's WAR


well say goodbye to that country

at least if it's a small on

so america wouldn't have any losses

Lol man, you're funny. Thanks for your well-thought and useful contribution. Yes, I admit, I'm very jealous on people who reload 50 times to be able to beat an invincible monster. Not.

I love how you assess my game. I'm a chessmaster and warcraft lvl 40 player, heroes 3,4,5 pro. You want 1v1 in any of these games? Tell me how noob and jealous I am after, not before.

Don't compare real life with a GAME, lol. KB is not meant to be realistic game.

"no respect for people who found those ways".

Dude, "found those ways" are you kidding me? What is there to find? You just cast Gift or Phantom on Inquisitors. And buy a few droids. And you can already quit the game because you WON. You are talking like abuzing exploits like hell is brain science. It's not.

Yes, I have no respect for NOOBS, because what Noobs do also affects the way games are done. And I like to play well-done games, not games done in such a manner that Noobs will enjoy.

[CharmedonWB]

I play no loss without ever cracking open the spellbook.