engine oil and radiator damage. Fails too quickly!

[Anders_And]

Originally Posted by ACE-OF-ACES

this is a rather silly thread based on the fact that there is no way to determine how many and how big the holes are in your cooling system.. And even if you could, there is very little, if any, real world data on how long an engine will run without coolent to compare to to see how well the overheat aspects are simulated

Then move on.
You have nothing in this thread to do. You dont like the thread neither do you answer my question for tips nor bring anything useful to the discussion.
Move on

[Anders_And]

Originally Posted by LoBiSoMeM

+1.

People got what asked for.

Show me the thread where people asked for radiator damage that fails the engine in 1-2mins!!

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Anders_And

thats exactly the point. Instead of starting a a discussion where its your way or the highway, instead ask yourself why on earth the devs decided to go from one extreme to the other?!

Of course what we had before was worse than now. Now, its equally unrealistic.

Well at least I can make across with the before, the now, is impossible under most conditions.

[swiss]

Any of you guys experienced a motorblock crack irl?
No?
Let me tell you, you usually have less than three minutes before the engine completely freezes; now that is on car, not a 1000hp ac engine.

Reminder: We are NOT talking about an hi-tech AH64 turbine which can run half an hour without oil.

[Anders_And]

Originally Posted by swiss

Any of you guys experienced a motorblock crack irl?
No?
Let me tell you, you usually have less than three minutes before the engine completely freezes; now that is on car, not a 1000hp ac engine.

Reminder: We are NOT talking about an hi-tech AH64 turbine which can run half an hour without oil.

yes that is something different.
Here we are talking about "slowly" losing oil and coolant...

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Anders_And

yes that is something different.
Here we are talking about "slowly" losing oil and coolant...

Slowly?
Based on what?
The picture you have in game?
The cooling system is pressurized, as a result the cooling medium will be pushed out.
If you ever fired a live 7.x cartridge you would know about the damage it could cause.
Btw, do know what happens if the block gets to hot? It will lead to a whole rat tail of problems.

[Anders_And]

Originally Posted by swiss

Slowly?
Based on what?
The picture you have in game?
The cooling system is pressurized, as a result the cooling medium will be pushed out.
If you ever fired a live 7.x cartridge you would know about the damage it could cause.
Btw, do know what happens if the block gets to hot? It will lead to a whole rat tail of problems.

U ever read any first hand account from WW2 pilots?! I just finished "the big show" by Pierre Clostermann. In one chapter he tells the story when his Spitfire was hit in the oilsystem over France and oil was spraying all over his canopy and how he managed to nurse his machine home with zero oil pressure and an engine that was on the edge to explode from the heat. He managed to cross the channel and land safely in England... there are 100s of these accounts from various ww2 pilots..

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Anders_And

U ever read any first hand account from WW2 pilots?! I just finished "the big show" by Pierre Clostermann. In one chapter he tells the story when his Spitfire was hit in the oilsystem over France and oil was spraying all over his canopy and how he managed to nurse his machine home with zero oil pressure and an engine that was on the edge to explode from the heat. He managed to cross the channel and land safely in England... there are 100s of these accounts from various ww2 pilots..

100s? I start to wonder why pilots ever felt the need to crash land.
Maybe they were scared.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by Anders_And

U ever read any first hand account from WW2 pilots?! I just finished "the big show" by Pierre Clostermann. In one chapter he tells the story when his Spitfire was hit in the oilsystem over France and oil was spraying all over his canopy and how he managed to nurse his machine home with zero oil pressure and an engine that was on the edge to explode from the heat. He managed to cross the channel and land safely in England... there are 100s of these accounts from various ww2 pilots..

That is oil leak, fair enough. But coolant system? I don't know mate but I'd say with a coolant leak, you're a glider within minutes - also based on numerous sotries from the WWII books, I'd say it's not entirely unrealistic, but what do I know.

If my cooling unit is hit, I throttle up and climb at full power HDG nearest airfield. If I am above France I know I won't make it home, when I am mid-channel, I might as well be lucky and nurse it home. I usually switch the engine off as soon I get oil gasket leak or exhaust head failure and glide. Best gliding speed I found is 100 mph IAS, coarse pitch, well trimmed, descending cca 900-1000 fpm.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Just wanted to add what's been said by swiss.

Coolant is there simply to maintain an operating temperature for good combustion. To put into perspective, gasoline (oil based) combustion is around 4000 degrees (2100-2200C). This is the temperature inside the cylinder every single time that particular cylinder fires with fuel. In very simple terms, coolant is circulated from the radiator and then to the engine and back again. The thermostat controls this flow of coolant. The coolant in the engine reaches temperature (say 210F) then the thermostat opens allowing for the coolant that has been sitting in the radiator (cooled by air passing through it) to then go into the engine again, while the hot stuff sits in the radiator. Depending on the application / temperature / load on the engine, this process could take place at a constant dribble (constant recirculation of coolant from the engine to the radiator) or it could happen several times a minute (t-stat opening and closing).

The second you don't have coolant to replace the hot stuff in the engine you're gonna have some major problems. If anyone remembers good old carbs, we used to have choke horns, idle bleeds, metering plates, high speed air bleeds, etc.. With the choke on (engine cold) we are restricting air into the engine. This is creating a rich situation (excess fuel). But the engine needs this fuel to run with a low temperature cylinder.

With that said, imagine you have a perfectly running engine (cylinder temperature is on the money, choke is not being used etc.) Just imagine what happens when air temperature in the cylinder is too hot. Remember, when it's cold, we need an excess amount of fuel and less air to keep the engine even running. But we know this when starting the engine. We pull the choke cable and get the ol girl fired up. But when the cylinders creep up in temp (over normal) from a coolant loss, we are still pumping the same amount of air, same amount of fuel, and same ignition timing (not talking modern electronic fuel injection) as when the cylinder temp was normal. This is absolutely catastrophic.

In a matter of seconds (especially in an engine that is well under load and to top it off, high RPMs) you have the cylinder temp shooting out of control. You start having detonation and pre-combustion almost immediately. In the racing world, detonation makes the most expensive ash trays you've ever seen (burnt pistons). As temps go higher, and the last little bit of coolant is sitting in the lower portion of the block, the valve guides (part of the cylinder heads - which happen to be the highest point in most engines is the 1st starved coolant area) start to immediately burn any oil off of them. It's metal on metal. Combustion now leaks right through the guide, throwing fire directly on the spring that designed to keep it seated when the lobe of the camshaft hasn't commanded it open. And in a matter of seconds, the valves are stuck. Pistons could hit those valves in a non-clearanced motor. Those cylinders have lost compression. The head gasket has long been blown. The head is warped. The engine is toast.

This process will happen in a matter of minutes without proper cylinder temperature.

A couple things to be considered. Air will not cool the cylinder of an engine. I do not care if you are in the Arctic or the most miserably cold place on the planet, or at 40,000ft in an airplane. Air only cools the coolant. It needs to be there. 4000F can not be cooled without a liquid. Air cooled engines have special fins and metals that will dissipate heat allowing air to cool them. The reason being, the cylinder is located on the outer most part of the engine. A typical V-series engine, the cylinders are located inside huge cylinder walls that are surrounded by huge areas of coolant passages, then another layer of metal beyond that which is the outside of the block. Air will have zip to do with a v-style engine in cooling it (other than cooling the coolant itself)

In saying this, I doubt we have every variable working in the sim. I remember bugs of the temperature gauge still creeping up with an engine off and so forth. *pure speculation* I imagine a fighter aircraft has a small cooling system. There's just not much space to stuff everything in there. So any loss of coolant is probably pretty significant to the operation of the cooling system in a fighter.

Just my thoughts, but I think what we have now is pretty good. But it's a shame if we still have the engine off / temp rises bug still. Either way it's much better and much more realistic than what we had before.