First multiplayer experience - pretty bad

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander

irR4tiOn4L,

I'm glad your second time on the ATAG server was more enjoyable.
As you noticed, the red/blue balance changes depending of the time of day.

Thanks Colander, it's a lot of fun when there's no technical issues and you're right, red/blue definitely changes with time of day and the number of players.

Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander

As for spotting in the dark, yes, is a LOT harder and usually easier from bellow which is how I suspect you where bounced. Also, as you noticed, this makes B&Z very complicated.

It is indeed a LOT harder, and I suspect harder still given that I am using a CRT which tend to have very dark blacks. Spotting a series of black dots/shapes against a dark blue background on a dark monitor is a challenge to say the least, but I also suspect its about practice spotting which I lack, given that offline missions tend to be much more straightforward.

Boom and Zoom is more complicated but altitude is still king I would say. I was only attacked after diving on that spit and losing E, and after escaping, if I had kept up my throttle and speed while climbing I would never have been caught by those pursuing spits! I was forced to crash land because I did not maintain the highest combined speed and rate of climb I could and did not do a good enough job of checking six.

Here's a shot of my first online kill btw, gained in that session - a single B&Z pass.

Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander

There are no AI fighters on the current ATAG missions, and as you also noticed, the plane set varies depending on the mission that is currently running on the server's rotation. I suspect you where bounced by 2 spits flying together with the help of teamspeak.

Initially I thought so too, but after watching the replay, I just don't know. They seemed to act like AI - they flew in tight formation INTO the attack, hosed with their gunfire and pursued me for a long time. More importantly, however, I saw lots of messages about "Spit Ia (AI)" crashed/shot down, etc. Heres a screenshot of me crash landing, with a message appearing about a Spit IIa crash (AI following me too closely?). As you can see my view was not good, but the server seemed to have AI fighters. This is why I am rather confused.



Although then again, shortly before crash landing a player reported "109 over manston" which was yours truly of course, so I must have flown into the hornet's nest. Perhaps I was indeed being hunted by 2-3 spits I suppose I got off lightly!

[Jatta Raso]

blues will sell you that 109s are the best fighters but when it comes to 1vs1 the spit can hold the upper hand if you don't make mistakes... it's turning ability isn't matched as has no easy counter, IMO the well flown spit has more chance of holding an indefinite ping pong with an +/- equal E foe until you can get an opening window to fire effectively

mind that as in many cases any advantage may have its own disadvantage, flying the spit meaning its turn rate; turn too tight at low deck and you'll stall or drop to slug speed, turn too tight at high speed and you'll black out (the more skilled 109s will infamously try to exploit their apparent G effect immunity).

anyway glad to see you're progressing on this rather unforgiving CLoD online experience; if with just a few sorties you've accumulated at least this experience, you may be inbound to do rather well. happy flying maybe we'll cross over the channel.. on a Spit Ia

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by Jatta Raso

blues will sell you that 109s are the best fighters but when it comes to 1vs1 the spit can hold the upper hand if you don't make mistakes... it's turning ability isn't matched as has no easy counter, IMO the well flown spit has more chance of holding an indefinite ping pong with an +/- equal E foe until you can get an opening window to fire effectively

mind that as in many cases any advantage may have its own disadvantage, flying the spit meaning its turn rate; turn too tight at low deck and you'll stall or drop to slug speed, turn too tight at high speed and you'll black out (the more skilled 109s will infamously try to exploit their apparent G effect immunity).

anyway glad to see you're progressing on this rather unforgiving CLoD online experience; if with just a few sorties you've accumulated at least this experience, you may be inbound to do rather well. happy flying maybe we'll cross over the channel.. on a Spit Ia

I like both.

My sentiments are actually quite close to yours. I never 'got' the FW190 for example in IL2 (apart from looks - very nice bird!). People talked about its B&Z potential, its performance and armament and inevitably quipped that any mistake was down to getting too low and slow, but in my hands it felt like a brick that had a single advantage which, if lost, left it a rather unrounded and ungainly fighter.

And as you say, maneuvering superiority is a more enduring strength than performance and speed which is often lost to the next series of these aircraft. You can't always rely on your given 109 being faster than a given spit, but you can generally rely on your given spit being more maneuverable than a given 109. The same applies in extremis for planes like the Zero, which even as late as 44 in the hands of a pilot like Sakai could fend of 16 to 1 odds. Being stuck in a more maneuverable aircraft that is outperformed by another is, imho, better than being stuck in a less maneuverable aircraft that has lost its performance advantage.

Having said that, its hard to go past the 109's speed and performance advantage in CLoD (no 100 octane!), although i'd say the Spitfire proved the better series in WWII. It allows you to fly with confidence knowing that nothing can follow and you can escape uneven odds. I would have got away in this example if I had used this advantage and not throttled back, which means I would have effectively prevailed over uneven odds.

When you are stuck in a 1v1, a spit is probably better. It can make itself a difficult target and last a long time (although so can the 109 if it uses its roll rate and vertical maneuvers). But the big disadvantage there is that you have no way to run, and no way to catch your opponent if he does. You cannot dictate terms, which should never be understated.

I also do not appreciate the limited armament of the spits/hurris - the run out of ammo far too quickly for a protracted fight. While the cannons on the 109 do too, and 2 machine guns may not be much, being able to fire them for a minute is a big plus imho. I haven't checked how much ammo the E1 has, but being all machine gun, this ability to stay in the fight is a plus for me.


All in all I think they are great planes but the 109 is a better hunter, able to operate independently with near impunity. But I think back to Sakai talking about the Wildcat that almost shot his zero down in 1v1 - either of these planes can be used to great effect with the right flying.

Personally I will just fly whichever side has fewer players on the server.

[ATAG_Colander]

Originally Posted by irR4tiOn4L

I saw lots of messages about "Spit Ia (AI)" crashed/shot down, etc. Heres a screenshot of me crash landing, with a message appearing about a Spit IIa crash (AI following me too closely?). As you can see my view was not good, but the server seemed to have AI fighters. This is why I am rather confused.

irR4tiOn4L,

I understand your confusion....
What you are seeing are the messages of real people fighters (there are AI bombers but not fighters) that bailed out. From that point forward, the game considers the plane an AI as there is no one piloting them.

Colander.

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Colander

irR4tiOn4L,

I understand your confusion....
What you are seeing are the messages of real people fighters (there are AI bombers but not fighters) that bailed out. From that point forward, the game considers the plane an AI as there is no one piloting them.

Colander.

Ah! That makes sense!

In that case I have to hand it to my pursuers, they sure were persistent!

[alphasephirot]

Hey Irrational!! i´m the pilot of that poor spit xD

Glad you are having a good time, i´m looking forward for my revenge hehehe.

You did it pretty good i have to say, i usually never stop checking my 6 and everything around me but when i first lost you i though that you disengaged because you were outnumbered and got relaxed. Bad situational awareness by my part; good job by yours.

Sorry about my english! bye!

[irR4tiOn4L]

Originally Posted by alphasephirot

Hey Irrational!! i´m the pilot of that poor spit xD

Glad you are having a good time, i´m looking forward for my revenge hehehe.

You did it pretty good i have to say, i usually never stop checking my 6 and everything around me but when i first lost you i though that you disengaged because you were outnumbered and got relaxed. Bad situational awareness by my part; good job by yours.

Sorry about my english! bye!

Hi sephirot, like all good sportsmen I shall have to give you that opportunity!

I appreciate your feedback and second view, isn't it amazing that we are able to do this while being able to say that we are getting an experience quite close to the real thing?

Considering though that you knew me outnumbered, I am not sure if I can really boast my own situational awareness I knew there were blenheims in the area which is what drew me down before I spotted you and a second spit. Clearly, there's plenty I missed If you look at the screenshot as well (my fire was crossing your plane diagonally from bottom right to top left, across the cockpit), the near dead 6 position, my use of an all machine gun E1 and the lack of catastrophic damage, it should also be said that the kill was due in no small part to lucky hits on your pilot. If your pilot had not died immediately, I suspect you would have been well in the fight.

You may like to know that your friends certainly gave me the what for in response. I was lucky to have crash landed in the end.