Dryads = Imbalanced

[jake21]

In my warrior game on hard (not sure if hard vs impossible is huge here) I found Murock very very easy and I did not use dyrad (or any elves other than unicorns) nor did I understand how time back worked.

Basically, what I've found is that different areas of the game are easy for different classes. What I'm trying to say is that your technique work well in Murock but almost any technique i tried with warrior worked well in Murock

Both games with mage on hard had much more dififuclty in Murock...

Originally Posted by Zhuangzi

Yes, they are still of some use, but the Lullaby is the best strength of all.

To illustrate just how good Dryads can be, I am up to level 29 and Murock in my Impossible Warrior game, and I am finding that Dryads just own everything. This is because most Orc units are low level and able to be put to sleep (except Veteran Orcs, I think). My team is as follows (24,000 leadership):

1200 Dryads
200 Hunters
12 Red Dragons
9 Black Dragons
150 Knights

with 15 Emerald Dragons and 150 Horsemen in reserve.

A standard fight, rated Very Strong, went as follows. This was against Orcs, Goblins, Furious Goblins and Hyenas.

Turn 1:

Red Dragons wait, Black Dragons wait, Hunters hit something, Dryads use Lullaby. Red Dragons use special ability, cast Haste, Black Dragons move closer, Knights move closer.

Turn 2:

Cast Phantom on Dryads. Pick off one stack to destroy using the various units. Cast Thorns with the Dryads, near to the sleeping enemies. Cast Thorns with the Phantom Dryads. One stack is killed and rage is now over 50.

Turn 3:

Use Soul Drain (40%) on strongest remaining enemy. This can be cast every turn now. Hit the strongest remaining stack with everything, making sure that the summoned thorns absorb any hits from the enemy stack. Cast Lullaby with the Phantomed Dryads, putting everything back to sleep. Cast Phantom again on the original Dryads.

Turn 4:

Soul Drain again. By now there are several thorns wandering everywhere. They can spawn more Thorns from dead enemies.

Turn 5:

Victory, losing only 2 Knights. It would have been zero but I was a bit lazy. This is not using Resurrection at all; I only suffered one actual hit from 2300 Hyenas, 1400 Orcs, 2000 Furious Goblins and 2200 Gobins.

Yeah, Dryads are overpowered.

[kadrzys]

Fine, go into Demonis with only Dryads. Good luck.

yeah and I went into Land of the Dead with only Inquisitors :] I wrote I'll replace Shamans with Driads and try something like Zhuangzi posted with Driads in my army. I never wrote I'll make army of Driads

[phoenixreborn]

My post wasn't really specifically directed at you.

Is sacrifice overpowered? Is ressurection overpowered? Are Black Dragons overpowered?

Do we care in a single player game?

There are lots of ways to crush the game. Why make a big fuss out of Dryads? Do you guys really want them nerfed?

Not everyone gets Anga's ruby, or uses it.

[Gatts]

They may be extreme usefull in not few battles - true. But bein overpowered, they have to be usefull all the game - what is not true - later on nearly none of their abilities is usefull:

low leadership? (20) -> more you have - more you loose (vulnerable, low HP)

no retaliation? -> not such a big deal - if they can't kill their target on first hit ... still it is handy, but not powerful

Lulaby? -> how many units are later on lulable? really... not many as far as I know

summon thorns? -> yep - they can take some damage - but later on it is no big deal for enemy to sway away thorns like nothing (as later on are used area efect spells, abilities and mostly fire based)

Is fast? -> well, it give a clear bonus for tactics, but well, you need only one fast unit in army to get first cast and rage use. Other fast units just wait and hope not to be targeted by enemy spells/ archers

Increases speed of elven units? - This could be real handy - for hunters/ elves who by this spell may go first even second round (when you first round +INIT does not apply anymore) so this could get handy... but again, not powerful

Dryads provide very large variety of tactics and combinations, which may look cheating-like, still I voted that they are not overpowered.

[Gatts]

Originally Posted by phoenixreborn

My post wasn't really specifically directed at you.

Is sacrifice overpowered? Is ressurection overpowered? Are Black Dragons overpowered?

Do we care in a single player game?

There are lots of ways to crush the game. Why make a big fuss out of Dryads? Do you guys really want them nerfed?

Not everyone gets Anga's ruby, or uses it.

Good point.

Actually we still may (or DEVS should) care if something is really overpowered, as it would take a lot of fun from the game... but no such spell/creature is in KB at all... would it be, it would look like this in the "how to ..." thread (and there would be only one, with replies like "it works")

first day travel to island xy - don't fight with anyone as the neutrals are too strong there, buy the unit Super-Griffon, you would need only 10 or 20 of them... their leadership is 10, they have resistance of 80% in all damage areas, have 1000 HP and deal 1200~1500 combined damage, can fly, steal life, have unlimited retaliations, are immune to armageddon and have regeneration - now on you don't need to think at all - you will win any battle just by clicking autocombat.

Dryads would not be as effective, if you players would not make it that effective (for instance, why you can win w/o loses when fighting your own hero who has twice as many units? - because you are the overpowered, not the dryads)

Counter question: Could dryads make sure you will win the last battle (only dragons and caster casting armageddon) w/o any loses? If you can answer yes- I will also re-vote that dryads are overpowered, as this is the ultimate battle (the second one is fighting baal)

[vicheron]

The game isn't really meant to be balanced. Some units are just better than others. Orc Shamans and Necromancers are just better than Archmages even though they all cost the same leadership. Cerberi are way better than Dwarves even though they only cost 10 more leadership. Dryads are better than Miners and Hyenas. That's just the way it is.

[Smash]

But this way you will always pick up same units as they are the best until you want hadicap yourself :/.

[Stepsongrapes]

Originally Posted by Gatts

They may be extreme usefull in not few battles - true. But bein overpowered, they have to be usefull all the game - what is not true - later on nearly none of their abilities is usefull:

While I agree that balance is not an absolute necessary in a single-player game, poor balance can be bad game design as it skews the challenge.

Saying something is only overpowered if it is useful the ENTIRE game is a false standard.

Being overpowered simply means having a usefulness greatly above the average.

KB uses a leadership system to try and equalize units (e.g., dragons are obviously better 1 for 1, but is a single dragon better than 1000 of something else?)- the reason that dryads are WAAAY above the average is that what you get per point of leadership is GREATLY undervalued, in terms of leadership.

Do dryads need a nerf? Not necessarily. Are they VASTLY better than the average, per point of leadership? Undoubtably.

[Ish]

Originally Posted by Stepsongrapes

While I agree that balance is not an absolute necessary in a single-player game, poor balance can be bad game design as it skews the challenge.

Saying something is only overpowered if it is useful the ENTIRE game is a false standard.

Being overpowered simply means having a usefulness greatly above the average.

KB uses a leadership system to try and equalize units (e.g., dragons are obviously better 1 for 1, but is a single dragon better than 1000 of something else?)- the reason that dryads are WAAAY above the average is that what you get per point of leadership is GREATLY undervalued, in terms of leadership.

Do dryads need a nerf? Not necessarily. Are they VASTLY better than the average, per point of leadership? Undoubtably.

Very well said.

I think they are a bit too strong personally

[ywhtptgt]

Originally Posted by phoenixreborn

My post wasn't really specifically directed at you.

Is sacrifice overpowered? Is ressurection overpowered? Are Black Dragons overpowered?

Do we care in a single player game?

There are lots of ways to crush the game. Why make a big fuss out of Dryads? Do you guys really want them nerfed?

Not everyone gets Anga's ruby, or uses it.

What a bombastic post...

The OP mentioned how overly powerful Dryads are in the game and that's all there is to it - Nobody whined about anything (except for you).

Suffice to say, Dryads are arguably more dangerous than all other level 3 units for the said reasons. Try fighting Sonya on Impossible.