German bombers so much tougher than RAF bombers?

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

I would venture a guess it is because Germans are shooting Explosive cannon rounds and Brits just peashooters.

we need a test with german planes on german bombers

You can de-wing a Blenheim with just the MG 17's in the nose of the 109.

Comes off right at the wing root, and only takes ~200 rounds or so.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Al Schlageter

For a VERY short distance and using external bomb racks.

For a more realistic view of what the B-17 carried read http://www.303rdbg.com/missions.html

The Mosquito could carry one 4000lb Cookie or 6 x 500lb bombs (4 internal + 2 external).

The Avro carrier could take 6 x 500lb bombs internally but afaik was never used.

That's an awesome link, tons of mission reports.

It's also very enlightening about how easy it was to be forced to abort a mission. Engine troubles, missing vital equipment, malfunctions of important aircraft systems, crewmen unable to continue because of a simple cold and so on.
And before anyone scoffs at it, a common cold can really mess you up in an unpressurised aircraft that flies at those altitudes, because your ears/nose are blocked and you can't effectively equalize the pressure as the aircraft climbs. Air can be trapped inside, expand as you climb and give you a royal headache or even damage your ear drums.

Also very interesting details on the bomb loads used. Most reports i saw state 5000lbs or so. They also mention incendiaries quite frequently and fire-bombing of civilian areas, which i thought was not systematically practiced in the ETO during daylight bombing raids. Some reports give as low as 3000lb bomb loads if a bomb bay fuel tank had to be carried for extra range.

All in all a great read

[gimpy117]

Originally Posted by CaptainDoggles

You can de-wing a Blenheim with just the MG 17's in the nose of the 109.

Comes off right at the wing root, and only takes ~200 rounds or so.

200 hits or 200 total?

[CaptainDoggles]

Originally Posted by gimpy117

200 hits or 200 total?

I have no way of knowing how many hits I'm getting.

It's been a while since I've tried, but usually it never takes me more than 400 rounds from my guns to down an AI blenheim. Depends how well I'm shooting, and it's usually easier to exploit the awful AI that bails out as soon as you smoke the engine.

Sawing the wing off without cannons requires precise aiming and I'm not a particularly good shot.

What I like to do is kill all the rear gunners and then get to about 50m or so before picking away at the wing root.

Drawback to this is that if the wing comes off it will sometimes hit your machine causing catastrophic damage.

Either way, it's still too easy. Spitfires absorb more punishment.

[Al Schlageter]

Glad you like the link Blackdog. Here is another for you, http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA398044

PHYSIOLOGICAL PROBLEMS OF BOMBER CREWS IN THE EIGHTH AIR FORCE DURING WWII

You mentioned the size of bombs,
total http://www.usaaf.net/digest/t137.htm
vs Germany http://www.usaaf.net/digest/t138.htm

Gives the number of bombs dropped by weight and type.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

A lot depends on what weapons you have, shooting within your convergence and what you hit.

Yup. My response above is relating to the latest patch only, which I assumed the OP meant. In the new patch, Ju88s particularly seem much tougher than before this patch.

That's what I thought the OP meant. If he meant generally speaking, well the 88 was notoriously tough to take down. Stukas not so much. I got a few shots into one online the other day but it was brought down mostly by that chap 'bofors'.

There does appear to be a difference in the new patch, hence my suggestion for 'investigation'.

[trademe900]

Yes, what I originally meant was I tested to see using RAF fighters on RAF bombers and German fighters on German bombers. No matter what, the German bombers are extremely tough (especially he111) and the RAF bombers are a joke.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by trademe900

Yes, what I originally meant was I tested to see using RAF fighters on RAF bombers and German fighters on German bombers. No matter what, the German bombers are extremely tough (especially he111) and the RAF bombers are a joke.

I have done a bit of ballistic testing on most of the aircraft (machine gun). I can find no evidence that the DM has changed at all with the latest patch. All the aircraft have their own weak spots, and that must be the target area to aim for. Experimenting with belt loads and convergence is a good first step.

[SlipBall]

Here you go boys...sorry for wasting ammo but your birds have a lot of guns

[Osprey]

German bombers are a doddle to bring down if you get 2-3 secs into the right spot. No problem to get 4 with the belts in the RAF types. a shallow dive from 5 or 7 high is safe enough with speed, you can access above the armour plating protecting the tanks from there.

Ju88 and Do17 - hit just inside the engine on top of the wing
He111 - hit just outside the engine on top of the wing

This will cause at worst big black smoke as the type wheels away into a death dive, at best an explosion which takes off the wing.

FW200 is easy too.

BR20, that's something else, I've given up attacking them - any solutions?