I Refuse To Fly WW2 CoD German Aircraft. Why?

[ATAG_Dutch]

Wow Krupi, a link to a site that still refers to 'the Fuehrer'.

No thanks.

P.S. I'm a scoundrel then.

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

Uhm, it was Britain who did declare war on Germany, refused German peace offers during the war (several times in fact), and it was Britain who started bombing German cities.

Peacemongers Germany, who knew!

To put it like the poor British were 'forced' to fight back against an agression is pure BS.

Right. Because there was no aggression to be fought in Europe at that time.

They had a choice in the matter. It was the Brits who choose war, and it was the Brits to choose to wage that war by targetting the enemy cities and civillian population itself.

I thought war started with Germany`s aggresion to Poland earlier

Don't blame it anyone else. Britain was not 'attacked' and Britain was not fighting 'back'. Britain wanted to fight and it wanted to fight in this rather dirty way. At least be a man about it.

Right. They should have stayed out until they`re all alone.

It set nothing - an army besieged a city and took it. There's hardly anything special about it. Bombarment of a besieged city is permitted under the rules of war, within some reasonable limits - some sort of military advantage from the bombardment, some sort of restraint from pointless destruction IS required, however.

Also straffing thousands of civilians leaving the city. They did set a tone for leading a war - a total war once again.

It set the tone for war propaganda perhaps, but certainly not for the conduct military operations. The French and British militaries were well aware of that fact, but of course their propaganda sold a different picture to their public.

Because Hitler never conducted anything other than a military operation

[arthursmedley]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

I dunno Arthur, I find Orville's posts a refreshing change from those of people who think national pride is some sort of crime.

Fair enough but what Orville posted sounds just like a speech by Goebells.
I must say I'm quite sure Avro is laughing his socks off at the moment as the usual suspects rush pell-mell to defend their beloved LW, eh Kurfy?

Btw, your'e quite right about Krupi's post. Heres what wiki has to say about the delightful author of his link;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Z%C3%BCndel

I'm constantly amazed by some of the links people provide in these forums!

[ATAG_Doc]

All this talk of bombing innocent civilians gets me totally pumped UP and looking forward to the later periods of IL-2 where we can get into our B-17s finally and into large formations and go to Dresden again. 8!!!

[arthursmedley]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Doc

All this talk of bombing innocent civilians gets me totally pumped UP and looking forward to the later periods of IL-2 where we can get into our B-17s finally and into large formations and go to Dresden again. 8!!!

You git! I've just sprayed coffee all over my laptop. lol.

[Blakduk]

Enough with the Nazi apologist BS!
Theirs was a belief system based on extermination of those whom they considered 'untermenschen' after they had sucked all the energy they had to give. They manipulated genuine grievances to nefarious ends and damn near destroyed their own people in the process. The atrocities they committed were almost beyond comprehension, and the wretched fate of nations such as Ukraine and Poland was to be caught between the twin horrors of Stalin and Hitler.
It was an ignoble cause and unfortunately some noble men fought for them, whilst other noble German men were killed by that feral regime because they dared to oppose it.

Hitler was a ruthless, amoral politician who routinely betrayed agreements he made with opponents once he had the power to do so- he nearly won the war in the West in May 1940 when Lord Halifax almost got the numbers in the British parliament to begin negotiations with Hitler for an armistice.

Both sides of the conflict began the war expressing noble intent to avoid civilian deaths and even attempting to avoid the destruction of private property, but once the dogs of war are set loose there is no controlling whom or what they will consume.

I have no doubt the allied nations winning the conflict saved Western Europe from a new dark age. I play a flight simulator GAME to test my skill and enjoy the thrill of virtual combat, not pretend that I am actually engaged in a life and death struggle that has the potential to wipe liberal democracies off the face of the planet. That's why i can get routinely shot down and laugh as i say 'Damn, i got shot in the head again!'

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

November 1940.

Notable Luftwaffe Operation - Devastation of Coventry's aircraft industries.

Notable Bomber Command Operations - Krupps factory at Essen.

Corrected for factuality.

Both sides attempted to hit industries, but there was of course a lot of collateral damage.

Bomber Command started its attacks on German cities on the night of 11 May 1940, a plan that was considered for some time by the War Cabinet, well before any German meaningful bombing of British soil occured (a few bombs fell on Orkney island, killing a single man iirc)

RAF Bomber Command was authorized to attack German targets east of the Rhine on May 15, 1940; the Air Ministry authorized Air Marshal Charles Portal to attack targets in the Ruhr, including oil plants and other civilian industrial targets which aided the German war effort, such as blast furnaces (which at night were self-illuminating).

The underlying motive for the attacks was to divert German air forces away from the land front. Churchill explained the rationale of his decision to his French counterparts in a letter dated the 16th: "I have examined today with the War Cabinet and all the experts the request which you made to me last night and this morning for further fighter squadrons. We are all agreed that it is better to draw the enemy on to this Island by striking at his vitals, and thus to aid the common cause."

Due to the inadequate British bomb-sights the strikes that followed had the effect of terror raids on towns and villages. On the night of 15/16 May, 96 bombers crossed the Rhine and attacked. 78 had been assigned oil targets, but only 24 claimed to have accomplished their objective.

On the night of May 17/18, RAF Bomber Command bombed oil installations in Hamburg and Bremen; the H.E. and 400 incendiaries dropped caused six large, one moderately large and 29 small fires. As a result of the attack, 47 people were killed and 127 were wounded. Railway yards at Cologne were attacked on the same night.

During May, Essen, Duisburg, Düsseldorf and Hanover were attacked in a similar fashion by Bomber Command. In June, attacks were made on Dortmund, Mannheim, Frankfurt and Bochum. At the time, Bomber Command lacked the necessary navigational and bombing technical background and the accuracy of the bombings during the night attacks was abysmal. Consequently, the bombs were usually scattered over a large area, and the bombing was seen as indiscriminate. There was an uproar in Germany, Jodl wanted retalitory bombing attacks, but Hitler turned him down.

RAF BC during this period in May-June 1940 attempted to limit the bombing to military/industrial targets, just like the Germans tried to do so in Battle of Britain.

Operation Abigail Rachel was the bombing of Mannheim the first deliberate terror raid on Germany on the 16 December. The British had been waiting for the opportunity to experiment with such a raid aimed at creating a maximum of destruction in a selected town since the summer 1940, and the opportunity was given after the German raid on Coventry.

Internally it was declared to be a reprisal for Coventry and Southampton. The new bombing policy was officially ordered by Churchill at the start of December and the operation on condition it receive no publicity and be considered an experiment. Target marking missed the city center and most bombs missed the city center. This led to the development of the bomber stream.Despite the lack of decisive success of this raid, approval was granted for further Abigails. This was the start of a British drift away from precision attacks on military targets and towards area bombing attacks on whole cities.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by winny

It certainly turned the world into a better place in 1945.

Do you know what happened if there wasn't Stalin and the rise of the red star?
I don't.

He intended to remove most of the male population in the UK.

Of course you can supply sources for this statement...

[PeterPanPan]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

Have you lost your mind?

England (including all other countries, Scotland, wales and Northern Ireland, as was appropriate at this time to refer to them simply as England) and France declared war on Germany.

Dispite numerous peace offers of Germany (or the 3rd Reich if you prefer), we the English (British) declined, even when Hitler offered to step down... These peace offering and nogotiations even encluded Rudolf Hess (2nd deputy of Germany) flying to Scotland to reason with the Duke of Hamilton.... In short NSDAP Germany went to great lengths not to war with England. Through the situation England which found the situation of events distasteful - waged war on Germany upon the will of only one man - Winston Spencer Churchill - Lord of the Admiralty ...

Your opinion beggars belief.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Dutch

Wow Krupi, a link to a site that still refers to 'the Fuehrer'.

No thanks.

P.S. I'm a scoundrel then.

The word is Führer. It means leader. It doesnt say "mein Führer" which would give it the meaning of alligence.

Its a common German world still in use:

http://www.dict.cc/?s=F%C3%BChrer