Orcs on the March thread

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Kings Bounty Hunter

Veteran orcs just ran around my trap lol jesus christ give me a break ha ha

direct line to my army and he does that as if he knew the trap was there!

Marvelous

They don't call them Veterans for nothing.

@Atlatea, so, I spent quite a few tries trying to win against Scrounger. Phantom Rune Mage Flood, Target + Battle Cry, I even "cheated" and used Black Knights too as my Target. Nothing was working. There was too many high profile stacks. Even if I managed to sheep the Goblin Shaman, the 47 Orc Chieftains and 47 Ogres would eventually run me over, and they were eyeing my Black Dragon in a really nasty way.

The Mega Summon Team was very strong, but it would eventually succumb to the overwhelming force.

I was lucky, as this time, there were no Orc Veterans, but the Ogre stack was larger and she sure had a LOT of pesky Goblin Shaman.

Then I remembered the last time I beat Scrounger, I had enough mana to use Black Hole at least once, this time I got a lot of GREAT items, so, why not?

I backtracked to beat the Nameless Island mission, got Black Hole.

Went all out with mana, using Wanderer Scrolls got 186 mana, much higher than what I had last time. Didn't bother with Destruction Level 3 though. Had about base 51 intellect, so 61 with a scroll.

Target Black Knights + Black Hole, bam, those pesky Ogre and Ogre Chieftain (oops, Orc Chieftain) were weakened as if hit by a low level Ball of Lightning. I even threw in a Ball of Lightning first by drinking a Potion of Rage ahead of time.

Next Round, Awaken Dragon (sniffles, raised it to level 3 and jacked up my Black Hole to level 3, now I have 4 crystals left, ), Ball of Lightning, then Black Hole AGAIN.

Once I had breathing room, I summoned up the usual Dragon of Chaos and Ancient Phoenix. Threw in one more Target, one EvilN, and a couple of heals.

I don't think I even used a Phantom Rune Mage for resurrection or Turn Back Time.

Seems like in conjunction with the strategies I used to beat Scrounger, Black Hole was the catalyst for victory.

I don't want to say it was "easy", as this game has a way of karmically biting me in the butt.

But, let's just say, I actually dug up all three treasure chests, ended up with 41 Rage and 127 Mana (out of 186). I definitely could have extended for max mana.

Black hole only did 4600-7600 damage, but the key was hurting the high profile units all together (Goblin Shaman: once Target ran out, or... let Goblin Shaman burn it away on Phantoms, Orc Chieftain would damage Rune Mages unless I used slow, Ogre would smash up things unless I stopped him).

When I tried to divide and conquer, Scrounger would merely Phantom up the other large stacks, even the sheeped stacks ala Rune Mages!

That said, I got Elkonium (the +30 mana) staff from the battle, but immediately afterwards, I got the legendary... Gloves of the Destroyer. Why? I dont' need two fo those darn things. Bleh. Bleh!!!!

I wonder if the game biases Scrounger's composite item based on class?

[ckdamascus]

So, I forgot I left two Gloves of the Destroyer on when I fought Samman. I still had all my nifty wanderer scroll buffs. Still only level 1 destruction.

You weren't kidding, atlatea.

Samman down in 3 rounds. He could not even get a single Armaggedon off.

[jake21]

So how many quests have people found? I seem to get exactly 92 everytime I play (steam version).

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by jake21

So how many quests have people found? I seem to get exactly 92 everytime I play (steam version).

Yeah, I got 92. Somehow, unicornxp got 93. I'm not sure where I am missing it.

[atlatea]

That's why i prefer destruction mage, to me it's more easier, and probably more powerful, though in term of power, i think both are very close.

But one thing i love about destruction mage is it is very no brainer, i mean you don't even need to think about tactis and strategies, the only thing you need to think is how to open your book spell and then search for your black hole and make sure your mouse is working and then click that black hole, then just enjoy your time.

Yes, 6k dmg black hole is more than enough, even in impossible difficulty.

I think that is an advantage, even if it is very hard to recognize.

You can also black hole spam caretaker last 2 floor, he will go down just as easy as scrounger.

I guess this is the way of mage (in impossible difficulty), early game you rely on buff, debuff, early to mid you add summon to them, then late game you use destruction spells then use summon to finish the leftovers.

So how many quests have people found? I seem to get exactly 92 everytime I play (steam version).

I also got 92 in all my games. I played the retail version. I don't know how to get 93 quests.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by atlatea

That's why i prefer destruction mage, to me it's more easier, and probably more powerful, though in term of power, i think both are very close.

But one thing i love about destruction mage is it is very no brainer, i mean you don't even need to think about tactis and strategies, the only thing you need to think is how to open your book spell and then search for your black hole and make sure your mouse is working and then click that black hole, then just enjoy your time.

Yes, 6k dmg black hole is more than enough, even in impossible difficulty.

I think that is an advantage, even if it is very hard to recognize.

You can also black hole spam caretaker last 2 floor, he will go down just as easy as scrounger.

I guess this is the way of mage (in impossible difficulty), early game you rely on buff, debuff, early to mid you add summon to them, then late game you use destruction spells then use summon to finish the leftovers.



I also got 92 in all my games. I played the retail version. I don't know how to get 93 quests.

Actually, in hindsight, I don't think I ever doubted the power of Black Hole. It really is the spell Death Star should have been.

My issue was the mana problems for smooth game play. I hate waiting after battle to restore mana or artificially prolonging battles to regain mana. So, as long as I use the summons for the easier battles, but the harder battles, Black Hole was definitely the choice.

It sort of makes Death Star and Armageddon obsolete.

I wonder if unicornxp could chime in the quest number thing.

[atlatea]

Well, if you have 2 crown of chaos, armageddon is better than black hole.

And armagedon still the most damaging mass target spell without any bonus from items. With items it will do 50% more dmg than black hole, probably more, i forgot about this.

One thing strange about armagedon is it deal astral dmg, but +fire spell dmg increase its dmg. If i remembered right, it is possible to reach more than 10k dmg with your armagedon by wearing necklace of firestorm + other similar items. Very scary if you ask me

Another way to use armagedon is using turn back time, but it is too mana consuming. But if i remembered right, someone actually found the correct items + skills + units to efficiently do armagedon+turn back time combo, i only remember what is the unit though. Yep, as you probably already guessed, it is the green dragons.

Hmm, if you use green dragons, i think it will solve your mana restoring problems.

KB TL armagedon is better i guess, because if i remembered right, when you use armagedon, you gather so much rage, then you can turn back time your green dragon, turn back time in TL is rage spirit ability, it is not too mana consuming as in AP/CW. But then again, there is a possibility that CW can provide 2 crown of chaos.

As for the quest, i give up.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by atlatea

Well, if you have 2 crown of chaos, armageddon is better than black hole.

And armagedon still the most damaging mass target spell without any bonus from items. With items it will do 50% more dmg than black hole, probably more, i forgot about this.

One thing strange about armagedon is it deal astral dmg, but +fire spell dmg increase its dmg. If i remembered right, it is possible to reach more than 10k dmg with your armagedon by wearing necklace of firestorm + other similar items. Very scary if you ask me

Another way to use armagedon is using turn back time, but it is too mana consuming. But if i remembered right, someone actually found the correct items + skills + units to efficiently do armagedon+turn back time combo, i only remember what is the unit though. Yep, as you probably already guessed, it is the green dragons.

Hmm, if you use green dragons, i think it will solve your mana restoring problems.

KB TL armagedon is better i guess, because if i remembered right, when you use armagedon, you gather so much rage, then you can turn back time your green dragon, turn back time in TL is rage spirit ability, it is not too mana consuming as in AP/CW. But then again, there is a possibility that CW can provide 2 crown of chaos.

As for the quest, i give up.

I can check if Armageddon does more damage or not, since I have the scroll on my mage, just never learned it.

The manual does not indicate that the base damage increases with Fiery bonus items, but you are probably increasing the post damage of Armageddon though. Not sure, but I can test this later.

All I know is, with the two Gloves of the Destroyer (+40% damage), 61 intellect via Wanderer Scroll, I dealt over 15000 damage to a stack against Samman using Black Hole. Destruction Level 1. So, I "could" probably deal 18000 damage if i went with Destruction Level 3.

If I raised my base intellect even higher (I didn't go all intellect items), I can probably do even more. Fairly certain my hero already had enough stuff to easily get 61 intellect without the scroll...

I didn't bother since, the black hole does enough damage, and I would hate the post battling and mana management.

However, there are times for absolute damage.

Although, I wonder... Calm Rage and Black Hole against the bosses? Hmmm.

[edit]
For initial damage, Armaggedon does a little more damage on the minimum, but Black Hole does more damage on the maximum.

At 51 intellect, two Gloves of the Destroyer, destruction level 3
Black Hole - 5076-8460
Armageddon - 5415-8120

I also added a Fire Bracelet to do a quick test, it did not change Armageddon's initial damage at all. Again, it will probably increase the post effect.

Armageddon's "post-status burn" will probably have it net to MORE damage over time than Black Hole. Black Hole can be used with a full army, Armageddon cannot.

I would definitely say it depends on your preferences in combat.

At about 76 intellect (I used Wanderer Scroll for this), dual Gloves of the Destroyer, Black Hole's maximum damage is 17,100.
Armageddon at 16,415

I can actually get another +4 intellect which would put me at 80 intellect, but I am too lazy to do the battle right now to upgrade to an archmage staff.. It would probably push me into the final breakpoint, giving me another 15%, and yet another 5*4=20%, so 35% more.

I hypothesize
17,100 *1.35 = 23,085 damage on the top end at 80 intellect, dual gloves of the destroyer.

All of a sudden, it might be possible to destroy Baal with Black Hole.... HMMMMM.

[atlatea]

Hmm, i guess that it is in TL then that armageddon damage is increased with +fire item, but its damage is not the 4 elements listed, TL is the same as AP, astral damage and resistance is not listed in the description though they exist.

Right, after i check again, black hole have more max dmg while armagedon have more min dmg, but yeah, the post dmg of armagedon probably able to make armagedon do more dmg in the long run since it is 100% burn, except to burn immune creatures.

My brother said that if hagrid (companion from CoTA) is available in the OotM, it is possible to kill baal with black hole using ancient ent + hagrid and couple of other items.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

I don't know what to do.

I'm lvl 28 now and have been using a full army up to now, still don't have any powerful destruction spells

two choices: all dragon army or inq,mages,paladins,rune mage and RDragon....

normally cast target and stoneskin on RD
heal and ancient phoenix turn 2

then just repeat or w/e and it's getting a bit boring.

Obviously I love the game