Daidalos Team's Room -QUESTIONS AND REQUESTS ONLY on IL2 Authorized Addons

[csThor]

Don't expect it (to put it mildly). DT doesn't have the expertise in this area and I doubt any of these "Soundpacks" do not contain samples that weren't taken from gawd-knows-where.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by csThor

Don't expect it (to put it mildly). DT doesn't have the expertise in this area and I doubt any of these "Soundpacks" do not contain samples that weren't taken from gawd-knows-where.

I cannot comment on the quality of the 4.09 sounds as they do not work on my system. However this argument is usually not about quality its about the type of sounds.

I agree that it is simply totally impossible for the makers of those/any sound packs to have had access to recordings from inside the cockpit of aircraft which in many cases have not been flyable for 40 years.

Even where they are flyable the sounds will be usually those of a restored warbird with a similar but usually not identical engine running at reduced boost for safety recorded from outside the aircraft.

Unfortunately these inaccurate soundpacks are exactly the type of sounds that the average person thinks sound "fantastic" in a flight sim. They expect the sort of outside sounds you hear in movies or when standing on the ground at an airshow watching a flypast. Historically correct sounds will not make these people happy.

[Fafnir_6]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

I cannot comment on the quality of the 4.09 sounds as they do not work on my system. However this argument is usually not about quality its about the type of sounds.

I agree that it is simply totally impossible for the makers of those/any sound packs to have had access to recordings from inside the cockpit of aircraft which in many cases have not been flyable for 40 years.

Even where they are flyable the sounds will be usually those of a restored warbird with a similar but usually not identical engine running at reduced boost for safety recorded from outside the aircraft.

Unfortunately these inaccurate soundpacks are exactly the type of sounds that the average person thinks sound "fantastic" in a flight sim. They expect the sort of outside sounds you hear in movies or when standing on the ground at an airshow watching a flypast. Historically correct sounds will not make these people happy.

Come on, guys! I'm sure the makers of the various soundmods would be able to point DT to their reference material (videos/sound files/etc), if asked. I think you would be surprised just how much accurate reference material is out there for this. If you are worried about ACCURACY then I would think you would be clamouring for a new sound scheme for stock IL-2. According to the current stock game, a BMW801-powered Fw190A/F sounds EXACTLY like an IAR8x or Hs129B both of which used different propellors and entirely different (Gnome-Rhone) engines. All axis inline engines apprently sound the same according the stock IL-2 regardless of model or whether or not they were built by Junkers or D-B. They also sound like R-2800 radials for some reason. The Fiat A.74 in the CR-42/G.50/C.200 sounds the same as the American engine in the Brewster. The list goes on and on. I would suggest replacing all sounds that can be proved, at least in part, by the available references. Any sound mod sounds that are un-referenced could be left out in favour of the original stock IL-2 sounds. Keep in mind that the key element of engine sounds is the combination of engine exhaust note, propellor pitch/type and whether the plane is multi-engined or not. Reasonable extrapolation can be made for engine variants or for aircraft equipped with the same engine/prop combo.

My two cents,

Fafnir_6

Edit: I see no reason why aircraft and gun sounds could not be subject to the same vetting process that is currently in place for aircraft flight models in terms of references. This way we could strive to provide IL-2 users with the most accurate sounds (backed by the available references) with the acknowledgement that IL-2 is a simulation and that, given the massive scope of the sim, complete fidelity to wartime aircraft performance and sounds is next to impossible but that we will try to emulate them to the best of our ability and knowledge. I agree that for some types of aircraft, no references of reliable quality are available, but to eliminate new sounds for better known aircraft because of this is preposterous. The crappy sounds of stock IL-2 is one of the main reasons I use mods (the others being better campaign generators, map repaints and some of the effects).

[bf-110]

Some sounds are well know,like Bf-109 DB engine roar.

[Igo kyu]

Originally Posted by Fafnir_6

I see no reason why aircraft and gun sounds could not be subject to the same vetting process that is currently in place for aircraft flight models in terms of references.

One plausible problem is copyright. Mod makers could perhaps have ignored this, but anything official can't, which means that sounds taken from a mod would have to be certifiably copyright free before they could be used, and that's probably not possible.

[Fafnir_6]

Originally Posted by Igo kyu

One plausible problem is copyright. Mod makers could perhaps have ignored this, but anything official can't, which means that sounds taken from a mod would have to be certifiably copyright free before they could be used, and that's probably not possible.

Very true. This is why mod makers would need to reveal all their sources prior to their sounds being considered for a future patch. References such as a you tube video or amateur recording should be admissable but any sounds ripped from Jane's, for example, would need to be disqualified.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

[AndyJWest]

Just what proportion of mod 'in cockpit' sounds are based on actual in cockpit recordings? Though stock IL-2 sounds may be lacking authenticity, this doesn't make the mod sounds right. I'd say if new sounds are required, we'd need to start from scratch.

EDIT
YouTube is hardly a source for reliably copyright-free resources. And not exactly high quality either.

[Fafnir_6]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Just what proportion of mod 'in cockpit' sounds are based on actual in cockpit recordings? Though stock IL-2 sounds may be lacking authenticity, this doesn't make the mod sounds right. I'd say if new sounds are required, we'd need to start from scratch.

EDIT
YouTube is hardly a source for reliably copyright-free resources. And not exactly high quality either.

I think the argument here is that sounds, of any sort, of actual wartime aircraft (inside & out) cannot be recreated in most cases. As a result any in-game sounds are just a best-guess. This is certainly true of mods but I think some also forget that this is true for the stock sounds as well. By this reasoning, both sounds sets are of equal (dubious) authenicity. However, one sounds set (the mods) sounds far more accurate as far as external sounds are concerned (this would be the easily recordable airshow sounds poo-pooed by an earlier poster). The modded internal sounds, in most cases, try to take the exterior sound and muffle/distort them as you would expect (guess) them to be in cockpit. The result is a varied and not unbelieveable (while not necessarily authentic) array of interior sounds that can enjoyed by all. The stock sounds, meanwhile, do not maintain particularily good fidelity to easily recordable exterior sounds and the interior sounds are generic and boring between the many different types of aircraft we have in game. I think value would be added by incorporating modded sounds into stck IL-2.

As for Youtube, I agree that copyright is often trampled there as well. But there is a difference between ripping a sound out of another simming product (direct copying) and listening to a Youtube sample (copyrighted or not) and trying to make your own synthesized sound (created in Goldwave or whatever) match what you hear as closely as possible. I would say that the latter would be admissible.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6

P.S. Awesome discussion we are having here, thanks to all posters

[Tempest123]

Just off topic a bit but the P-40E and M external models are very badly out of proportion, incorrect tail and nose lengths and wing dihedral. The P-40B and C models (and tomahawks) look wonderful though. Is this because the E and M where done earlier by different modelers?

[Fafnir_6]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

Just off topic a bit but the P-40E and M external models are very badly out of proportion, incorrect tail and nose lengths and wing dihedral. The P-40B and C models (and kittyhawks) look wonderful though. Is this because the E and M where done earlier by different modelers?

My understanding is that the P-40E/M was done by Radek for the original IL-2 "back in the day", prior to the release of Pacific Fighters. The P-40B/C were Pacific Fighters additions, if memory serves. I believe Oleg & co. were aware of the errors in the P-40E/M 3D models but never had the time to fix them due to the development of Pacific Fighters first, and then Storm of War later. Development screens of DT patch 4.10 have shown (Ju88, Bf110G, G.50, etc) that they do these sort of fixes. Hopefully they can find time in their busy schedules to give the P-40E/M (and possibly add the most-produced P-40N while they're at it) some love. May I also add that the landing gear of the P-40s seem a little bit duck toed? I haven't had time to really examine them closely, but they seem to be twisted slightly outwards in the extended position. Perhaps the animation can be tweaked at some point.

Cheers,

Fafnir_6