4.11 overheat and engine damage test results

[BadAim]

WD, if I knew nothing whatsoever about aircraft, I would discount everything you have to say, based solely on your obviously swollen head. You have given not a shred of evidence beyond your own expertise.

My only interest in this thread is that DT does not listen to you. I'm sure at this point that they are not that stupid (they can't possibly be).

[WhistlinggDeath]

You didnt see the Ntrk ?

Swollen head indeed, ... and filled with astute observations.

[WhistlinggDeath]

JG27 Papa, - Snake pointed out a good point, it is Tzon I am talking about in the earlier posts, not Tazzu (no disrespect to him). I always get em confused but it was Tzon I am talking about.

[WTE_Galway]

Page 82 of this seems relevant:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/34811808/N...raining-Manual

[ElAurens]

This is why I don't fly late war planes, and really why I almost never fly at all anymore.

This thread is a perfect example of one of the reasons why combat flight sims are a dying breed.

In our quest for ever greater realism, counting every rivet, hitting the exact half a degree of temp to obtain overheat, pretending to be "Masters" and "experten" you have taken all the fun out of the experience.

In short, you have made it a job.

I hope you are all happy.

[WhistlinggDeath]

Talked to Mr Holcomb (actually, Captain Holcomb) on the phone and it was very interesting and informative. Found out he did not get credited with any kills but did have several run ins with the Luftwaffe fighters. My secretary Maria will get this typed up and I will print it here for all the history buffs.

I got bad news for Team D though, he indicated that the P51 D with the Packard V 1650, took several minutes under WEP to get to a dangerous situation. The way he describes the P51 is very different from the model we have in 4.11 (or even 4.10.1).

Let us wait for Maria to finish it, you guys will find it interesting.

[MaxGunz]

Be sure to include the exact questions you asked including how often he flew a P-51 the same way that you do. Perhaps he says the state of his cooling system before he started to run on WEP, a detail I have yet to see you make. He may be talking apples but I think you are making apple sauce.

You've been calling yourself expert since almost you hit the forums years ago and started your publishing yet I see you advocate a lot of very non-expert things... still.

Try telling how long to go from engine temp to engine temp while in a steady flight regimin and what that is, not this "hit WEP in stall climb or level flight and start counting". You leave too much out for direct comparison.

Added: in fact it would be much better information from Mr. Holcomb to find out all the flying practices that can affect engine temperature of a P-51D and how they do so. Be sure to ask about rookie mistakes and assumptions.

[JG27_PapaFly]

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

I load up 4.11, start the QMB on the Okinawa map, start in the TA 152 H1 at 1000m of height, and fly for exactly one minute (so that the random number generator of 4.11 does not start my engine hot or cold), and then slowly ramp up power from 90% to 110% (all this on auto prop pitch) and put it into a combat dive and then semi-steep climb.

Your test method is severley flawed. The charts I've posted on page 1 of this thread prove that there is no "random number generator" starting your engine hot or cold. Engines have exactly the same temp at mission startup, and that's why the time-to-overheat is so reproducible in my experiment.

My tests unmisakably show that the TA's only problem is the auto rad being a little sluggish. Flown with manually opened radiators, it overheats after the spit25lbs during a full power climb at slow speed (260IAS). In fact, the TA152-H1 can maintain a constant 260kph IAS climb at 95% power above 4000m on the crimea map, without ever overheating. That's very very good IMO.

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

I achieve overheat on a brand new fresh engine in ~15 seconds. And I am no where close to the apex of the climb or stalling.

No wonder, you're on an extremely hot map. That proves nothing.
What were the oil and coolant temps of all tested planes the moment you applied full power?
Given the relation between time-to-overheat and speed, what is the speedprofile for every plane tested?
I'm sorry WD, but your methodology is no good. One track proves nothing, you need to deliver a thorough test if you want to be taken seriously. You're not helping your case at all. All i see are politics, allegations with no proof. Only fools will nod, everyone knowledgeable will shake their heads at your "data".
As I've stated in your other post, you must design an experiment in such way that everyone can reproduce it. We have no idea whatsoever what speeds, flight attitudes, oil and coolant entry temps you had in your one experiment. There are no average values, no error bars, but strong allegations.

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

The combat climb portion of the overheat model, which is so essential to BnZ planes (but not to TnB ones) widens an already noticeable gap in favor of the UFO fliers and is by far inaccurately modeled (and incorrectly applied to two planes that use the same engine).

Look at my data at the bottom of my first post: the spit overheats considerably faster than the TA during a combat climb (260 kph IAS) on the crimea map.

I've clearly shown you how such test are to be done in order to be taken seriously. Feel free to test several planes the way i did at different constant speeds, and we might have a complete profile showing the relation between time-to-overheat and speed for those planes. Yes, that would be a lot of work. It's much easier to throw a flawed "test" into the discussion, flown on a different, much hotter map, to support your case.

[Redroach]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

This is why I don't fly late war planes, and really why I almost never fly at all anymore.

This thread is a perfect example of one of the reasons why combat flight sims are a dying breed.

In our quest for ever greater realism, counting every rivet, hitting the exact half a degree of temp to obtain overheat, pretending to be "Masters" and "experten" you have taken all the fun out of the experience.

In short, you have made it a job.

I hope you are all happy.

Yes, and I'm very glad about that.
There's a reason why people choose ancient Il-2 over more modern, but wacky, Sims.

[BadAim]

BTW, Thank you for your tests PapaFly. Lots of valuable, verifiable information, with not a shed of ego stroking.