IL2 and Sound Modding

[jasonbirder]

May be of interest to those who state so vehmently that a breach of the EULA is against the law...as i pointed out earlier there are legal precendents that consider the EULA to be a cooercive contract and consequently unenforcable...

Contract Formation:
“Terms Later” Contracting: Bad Economics, Bad Morals, and a Bad Idea for a Uniform Law, Judge Easterbrook Notwithstanding, by Roger C. Bern - 12 J.L. & Pol’y 641 (2004)


The Article states that “a rule sanctioning "terms later" contracting increases information asymmetry, increases transaction costs, enhances hold-up and opportunistic behavior by vendors, and results in inefficiencies and distributional unfairness by systematically redistributing wealth from consumers to vendors.” The author claims that "terms later" contracting “fails to protect the reasonable expectations of buyers while at the same time protecting the unreasonable expectations of vendors, thus abandoning the only moral justification for courts to enforce promises.” He also argues that this rule “abandons the principle of impartial treatment of the parties (vendors are favored) and abandons achieving justice between the parties in order to achieve some perceived greater societal good.”

[jasonbirder]

it´s all a waste of time. to argue with stalkervision and his lookalikes is of no use. them people have, in my opinion, not the equipment for a real diskussion, i.e a functional brain. to fight against stupidity is a lost cause.

Thats not really an arguement is it...saying its no use arguing because the other side is just stupid...
Argue your points, defend your corner but don't just fire out insults...

And to seperate the online and offline community;
When i started il2 i played offline, i had no need for a community. ok some people made skins, some missions that was fine, but no real community. And it was still the dumb, cheating ai i was fighting, in short: offline is mostly for loners and the poor folks without internet.

Hello! You wonder why there is a split in the community between onliners and offliners and then go on to call offline play dumb and offline players loners...YOU may prefer the fun of an online furball, but the majority of IL2 players are offliners and insulting them doesn't advance your argument one bit...

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by jasonbirder

May be of interest to those who state so vehmently that a breach of the EULA is against the law...as i pointed out earlier there are legal precendents that consider the EULA to be a cooercive contract and consequently unenforcable...

Waiting for that precedent,smackie.You can post 10 publications,doesn`t mean anything.A judge can say all he wants as long as it his personal opinion of this law.If that is a fragment of a certain precedent(justification) please post the whole thing.A precedent might indeed be a reason for you to disobey a flawed law but you have to be sure that next 100 such cases will be ended the same way.That is ofcourse only for your country,so others might kiss such a precedent good bye if they live somewhere else.

Hello! You wonder why there is a split in the community between onliners and offliners and then go on to call offline play dumb and offline players loners...YOU may prefer the fun of an online furball, but the majority of IL2 players are offliners and insulting them doesn't advance your argument one bit...

Oh yeah the favorite way of yours - twisting is to suit you.Retreating from the previous comments on the online vs offline issue as you put it?You dunno where you called that an offlinevsonline problem?Should I quote it to you?

[jasonbirder]

Step-Saver Data Systems, Inc. v. Wyse Technology, 939 F.2d 91 (3rd Cir. 1991) was case in which the legality and history of computer EULAs was explored. The court noted, "When these form licenses were first developed for software, it was, in large part, to avoid the federal copyright law first sale doctrine" thus the intent of EULAs after 1990 were to preempt federal statutes using contract law and that they serve no purpose besides attempts to preempt consumer rights in other statutes.

In this case, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit held that a EULA disclaimer waiving all express and implied warranties, printed on the outside of the box, was not binding.

Good enough for you?

[jasonbirder]

Specht v. Netscape Communications Corp., 150 F. Supp. 2d 585 (S.D.N.Y.2001), was a U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York decision involving whether software license agreements are binding. It held that license agreements are akin to contractual agreements, thus to be binding there must be mutual consent.

The court ruled that the license agreement for the Smart Download software was not binding on the plaintiffs and thus denied to compel arbitration for plaintiff's breach of the license agreement.

The court ruled that the software license agreement was not binding because a binding contract means that both parties know of the terms and agree to them.

Or is that any better for you?

Two seperate US court rulings indicating that Software EULA are not legally enforcable binding contracts...I suppose its a little too much to expect an apology
But you could perhaps agree that i'm not a

Smackie

[carguy_]

Okay then, as a mod user you did not break the law.Good for you and any others living under those courts` jurisdiction.I`d like to see the whole casus and ratio decidendi but I think we have all the material we need.Link to those maybe?


Oleg has no legal grounds in USA.I`d like to see if this is repeated by any courts from Europe.In law systems other than common law only the Supreme Court has the last saying here so it`s not so easy.

I don`t agree with the modding one bit as it is no respect to developper but I guess that at least in regards to US citizens the law argument is out.

So from my POV you`re still breaking the law. The difference is that you`re not living in my part of the world.


In other words, an asshole but not a criminal asshole.

[1.JaVA_Sharp]

alright, who can put a copy of the license agreement in this here thread?

[fly_zo]

@stalkervision:

great fight m8 .... you have free drink for life on me ...

once i thought fighting the trolls its fun too.... but they are like 1 level of "Invaders" repeated over and over and over and ..... boring!!!!

[stalkervision]

Originally Posted by fly_zo

@stalkervision:

great fight m8 .... you have free drink for life on me ...

once i thought fighting the trolls its fun too.... but they are like 1 level of "Invaders" repeated over and over and over and ..... boring!!!!

Thanks buddy but also thank Jason. I set them up but he knocked them down and totally finished the job...

It will take them quite a while to remove the boot prints he put on their behinds..

[Chivas]

The EULA can be interpreted differently everytime it is dragged thru the legal system. The intention of the developer has a high priority in making the judgement.

The developers intention was to leave some aspects of the sim open for modding and other aspects encripted to protect his development techniques and fair on-line play.

There is no point in arguing with people who have no respect for the developers wishes, or understand from the history of other on-line sims, what effect it had on the on-line community. What I can't understand is if Modding so great why arn't you all modding and flying BOB WOV and the CFS series. In the CFS series the Maps, FM, DM, etc...have been modded for years...it should be perfect by now, but your all still here.

I get a laugh out of people who never fly on-line and never experienced the effects of hacks, tell us not worry, it won't be problem.