What a tracer should look like (before spazzing just look).

[yellonet]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

And another arm chair experienced weapons specialist.

Great!

This effect has nothing to do with weapons. It's something that happens in the eye when viewing a source of light that is moving and/or if you are moving.

I guess you'll just ignore this but, please explain to us how it works, and no "because I say so" doesn't cut it.
How do you explain the patterns of light that can be created by moving a sparkler fast before your eyes? That's the same effect as firing a tracer and then altering your positing, weather its the light or the viewer that is moving is irrelevant as it's the relative motion that is important.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by yellonet

According to Bliss' experience that is impossible. You must have imagined it.

I suppose that what I was trying to point out here is that the physical behaviour of a tracer round in a geometrical sense is quite distinct from the retinal after image of any bright object in darkness.

If I remember optometry college rightly, (it's along time ago and I don't work in the industry anymore) the after image is caused by the bright object bleaching out the 'visual purple' pigment which stimulates the nerve impulse to the brain, and the after image stays until this pigment is regenerated by the cone cells of the retina. (if anyone is more knowledgable than this I'll stand corrected, a previous career can be like a previous life sometimes!).

I haven't followed Bliss and Winny's argument in detail, but I was just wondering whether this was the missing factor in establishing a common ground.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by yellonet

This effect has nothing to do with weapons. It's something that happens in the eye when viewing a source of light that is moving and/or if you are moving.

I guess you'll just ignore this but, please explain to us how it works, and no "because I say so" doesn't cut it.
How do you explain the patterns of light that can be created by moving a sparkler fast before your eyes? That's the same effect as firing a tracer and then altering your positing, weather its the light or the viewer that is moving is irrelevant as it's the relative motion that is important.

Well it's pretty easy. Go outside and stare at the sun for 10 seconds. You'll notice not only that your eyes will probably hurt but you'll have retinal burn and an image that appears in your mind for, at the very least, an additional 10 seconds after you're done staring at the sun.

Now walk around and don't stare at the sun. Even though the sun could be in your peripheral vision as you are looking straight ahead while walking down the street, you now don't have this image burned into your head. The reason being is that you are not focused on this image. While firing a weapon the tracer rounds come into your peripheral view as they go downrange towards the target. The concept is NO different. I've explained it more times than I count. I'm done posting in this thread.

[yellonet]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

And another arm chair experienced weapons specialist.

Great!

Edit: And if you'd actually take the time to read what I wrote (which seems hard to do for some people) you'd realize that a sparkler has nothing to do with the discussion. Neither does staring at a tracer round while firing a weapon. The game has the tracers modeled to what you do in real life when firing a weapon. And that would be focus on the target you are shooting at. If you focus on a sparkler (which your eyes can actually do) you can cause all the retina burn you want. That image might stick around in your head for over a minute. But the thing you don't seem to realize is that a tracer will be gone from your POV in an instant. That's why the Helo video keeps getting brought up. It's going over 100mph in some spots while the gunner is firing almost perpendicular to in some instances to the direction of travel, yet the "curved" effect is hardly noticeable on a video. Well let me tell you something, an airplane just so happens to be traveling 99% of the time in the SAME direction that the guns are pointing. Guess what? That bend or arc that's hardly noticeable in a good video camera is much less pronounced when seeing this with your own naked eye. If you had experience on the subject at hand, just like winny, you wouldn't be trying to bring up a candle or a sparkler that you wave around with your hands and focus on it, and compare it to a high speed moving bullet. Kinda laughable.

I've fired tracer rounds, but when I did I wasn't trying to create or look after the effect. Does that mean it doesn't exist? Of course not!
You keep bringing up what one is supposed to do or is doing in most cases when firing a weapon, but guess what, that doesn't matter to the discussion, common practice will not stop this effect from happening under the right circumstances.
The only thing that you've shown is that you will ignore things that doesn't fit in your skewed view on reality, and because you have more experience firing weapons you must be right. But again, this effect isn't about weapons but about light hitting your eye.

Whether or not it's coming from a "high speed moving bullet" or a sparkler doesn't matter as it's the speed over your field of vision that creates the effect.
This discussion is obviously over your head as you've on numerous occasions proven that you do not understand even this simple concept.

[yellonet]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

Rats. Just as I was developing my umpiring skills.

Haha

S!

[winny]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

And another arm chair experienced weapons specialist.

Great!

Neither does staring at a tracer round while firing a weapon. The game has the tracers modeled to what you do in real life when firing a weapon. And that would be focus on the target you are shooting at. If you focus on a sparkler (which your eyes can actually do) you can cause all the retina burn you want. That image might stick around in your head for over a minute. But the thing you don't seem to realize is that a tracer will be gone from your POV in an instant. That's why the Helo video keeps getting brought up. It's going over 100mph in some spots while the gunner is firing almost perpendicular to in some instances to the direction of travel, yet the "curved" effect is hardly noticeable on a video. Well let me tell you something, an airplane just so happens to be traveling 99% of the time in the SAME direction that the guns are pointing. Guess what? That bend or arc that's hardly noticeable in a good video camera is much less pronounced when seeing this with your own naked eye. If you had experience on the subject at hand, just like winny, you wouldn't be trying to bring up a candle or a sparkler that you wave around with your hands and focus on it, and compare it to a high speed moving bullet. Kinda laughable.

Look, you've called me a retard simply because I said tracer can bend, yet you say the same thing. Now we appear to be discussing how much they bend and if you can tell or not.

The problem is that CoDs tracers can't bend because they are rectangular polygons.

A serious question, from your experience how long does a tracer round burn for? Can you see it until it goes out, or does it get to the point where you can't see it because it's too far away?

You say that tracer leaves your point of view 'in an instant'... Not if you're firing whilst flying in the same direction as the bullets.

And, there is no 'focus' in CoD... It's a window on the world, not an eye or a camera, There is no lens in CoD, no motion blur, no point of focus.

Everything is in focus at all times. They are drawing in tracer regardless of where you happen to be looking, at all times.

Unless your wings have come off you are going in the same direction as your guns 100% of the time.

But you're not going in the same direction as your bullets because once they've left the gun they are going where they were fired.

The very action of firing the guns has an effect on the aircrafts movement up, down, left, right. And how many times have you fired your guns whilst flying perfectly straight and level?

A tracers streak must adhere to 2 rules.

Because it's a continuous path..

1. The tip must always point to where it is going
2. The tail end of the streak must always point to where it last was.

CoD breaks the second rule.

[robtek]

And, as already posted, the effect would be too minuscule to be seen!!!
The maximal lateral movement of the viewer is sooooo much less then speed of the light source that the radius of the curve of the tracer would be too large to see a bend in the visible tracersegment.
Maybe you can solve it mathematically, winny? Then there would be no room for interpretations.

[yellonet]

Originally Posted by robtek

And, as already posted, the effect would be too minuscule to be seen!!!
The maximal lateral movement of the viewer is sooooo much less then speed of the light source that the radius of the curve of the tracer would be too large to see a bend in the visible tracersegment.
Maybe you can solve it mathematically, winny? Then there would be no room for interpretations.

Remember that it's not the speed of the bullet that creates the effect but the speed of the light source across the plane of vision, and that speed is superfast when you start off behind the bullet and then veer off from its path.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Originally Posted by winny

Look, you've called me a retard simply because I said tracer can bend, yet you say the same thing. Now we appear to be discussing how much they bend and if you can tell or not.

Yep, it's because you think they should bend all the time. That's why you think the game is wrong. Which to your actual eyeball they only do so under the circumstances I've said 20x now.

The problem is that CoDs tracers can't bend because they are rectangular polygons.

You've already been shown told about COD vids that show this. I suggest actually looking at them.

A serious question, from your experience how long does a tracer round burn for? Can you see it until it goes out, or does it get to the point where you can't see it because it's too far away?

Depends on the round, but I'm sure you could google it like your other answers.

You say that tracer leaves your point of view 'in an instant'... Not if you're firing whilst flying in the same direction as the bullets.

You've just gone from retard to complete moron. If the stationary object (being the weapon) is traveling at 300mph to begin with, the round will be traveling faster than what it would if the weapon was stationary when 1st fired.

Let me guess, are you one of those people that think you can jump at the last second to save yourself from a falling elevator? I guess that jump (or the gun going off in a plane) somehow stops all laws of physics and you start going the complete opposite speed of your fall or the plane magically hops to 0mph when the trigger is pressed so the bullet goes out at it's natural/stationary velocity? LOL OMFG. You've got to be one of the dumbest I've ever seen.

And, there is no 'focus' in CoD... It's a window on the world, not an eye or a camera, There is no lens in CoD, no motion blur, no point of focus.

Seems again, you can't seem to read. I've already said that this is a hardware limitation both here and at SimHq.

Everything is in focus at all times. They are drawing in tracer regardless of where you happen to be looking, at all times.

Same as above, hardware limitations. But the good thing is the round is modeled/drawn exactly as if you were actually firing a weapon, by focusing on the target, and the effects on these rounds in 2d look how they would firing in real life.

Unless your wings have come off you are going in the same direction as your guns 100% of the time.

Words can't describe your stupidity. If a gun was mounted on a car facing straight forward, all I would have to do is adjust toe in equal amounts one direction or another and the car would be "dog tracking". In other words it's "a skew" to it's actual symmetric position. The car would still be going forward while the gun is not pointing in the same direction as the car.

In an airplane all it would take is a slight wind or a touch of the rudder to have the plane skewed to it's straight forward position. Do I really need to show you a video of a plane "dog tracking" in the wind?

Wow.

But you're not going in the same direction as your bullets because once they've left the gun they are going where they were fired.

The very action of firing the guns has an effect on the aircrafts movement up, down, left, right. And how many times have you fired your guns whilst flying perfectly straight and level?

Even stationary you'll be hard press to ever repeat where you are firing with an automatic weapon. Again, you're a bright one.

A tracers streak must adhere to 2 rules.

Because it's a continuous path..

1. The tip must always point to where it is going
2. The tail end of the streak must always point to where it last was.

CoD breaks the second rule.

That's what I see in game. Or should I say, what I see in game is very natural to what I see with my own eyes while firing a weapon. Again, I'm glad the devs don't listen to utter buffoons, and instead, have them modeled as close to reality within the 2d scope we are working with.

[yellonet]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

Yep, it's because you think they should bend all the time. That's why you think the game is wrong. Which to your actual eyeball they only do so under the circumstances I've said 20x now.

Now I understand, you're the kind of person that start believing something when you've heard it enough times. Guess what, repeating something that is wrong over and over doesn't make it right.

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

You've already been shown told about COD vids that show this. I suggest actually looking at them.

The "stream" of tracers is bending but the tracer streak is not, that's what's wrong. In your opinion this doesn't matter, and no one is denying you your opinion, but the graphical representation is still wrong.

If the stream bends the streaks should also. How can someone possibly refute this?

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

Let me guess, are you one of those people that think you can jump at the last second to save yourself from a falling elevator? I guess that jump (or the gun going off in a plane) somehow stops all laws of physics and you start going the complete opposite speed of your fall or the plane magically hops to 0mph when the trigger is pressed so the bullet goes out at it's natural/stationary velocity? LOL OMFG. You've got to be one of the dumbest I've ever seen.

About the elevator, theoretically you could, if you knew when to jump and if you could jump powerful/fast enough.

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

Seems again, you can't seem to read. I've already said that this is a hardware limitation both here and at SimHq.

No it isn't. Selective focusing and DoF and more are present in a number of games (to create a movie-esque feel), it's just that it's not needed or wanted in a sim as you're still using your eyes which will create these effects for you whether you like to or not.

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

Words can't describe your stupidity.

Again, you're a bright one.

utter buffoons

Wow, you're starting to look really bad with all those personal attacks...