Mods discussion, links, etc

[Oktoberfest]

I prefer to keep the discussion on NG stuff guys. I'm sure there's a way to go through this in a more or less accurate way. We are I don't know how many brains on this forum, start to think to find a solution.

I'd like to read that contract between 1C and NG. That would allow to find the wek spots and what is allowed or not to do in future patchs. Can't anybody at TD get a copy of the contract ?

[Asheshouse]

Example of NG Trademark from US Patent and Trademark Office USPTO

Note: F4F Wildcat filed for trademark in 2006. Wasn't Pacific Fighters released 2004?
NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "F4F"
Seems that the list of trademark applications relating to US WWII planes was made after the release of Pacific Fighters.
NG claimed that the term was in existing business use. How many F4F's did they sell in 2006?

I think -- but I'm by no means certain -- that those in the US can register an objection with USPTO to NG's continuing use of the trademark on the basis that a) They did not have a continuing business use when it was registered and b) They do not have a continuing business use now. c) When it was registered the term was already in the public domain and in common use.

Mark Image
Word Mark F4F WILDCAT
Goods and Services IC 009. US 021 023 026 036 038. G & S: Video games for use with televisions. FIRST USE: 19881001. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19881001

IC 028. US 022 023 038 050. G & S: Toy airplanes; scale model airplanes; arcade games; and stand alone video game machines. FIRST USE: 19881001. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19881001
Standard Characters Claimed
Mark Drawing Code (4) STANDARD CHARACTER MARK
Trademark Search Facility Classification Code LETS-1 FF A single letter, multiples of a single letter or in combination with a design
NUM-4 The number 4 or the word Four
Serial Number 78884021
Filing Date May 15, 2006
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1B
Published for Opposition May 15, 2007
Registration Number 3522645
Registration Date October 21, 2008
Owner (REGISTRANT) Northrop Grumman Corporation CORPORATION DELAWARE 1840 Century Park East Los Angeles CALIFORNIA 90067

(LAST LISTED OWNER) NORTHROP GRUMMAN SYSTEMS CORPORATION CORPORATION DELAWARE 1840 CENTURY PARK EAST LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA 90067
Assignment Recorded ASSIGNMENT RECORDED
Attorney of Record Bruce B. Brunda
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "F4F" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

Other names registered by NG include:

P-61 Black Widow
P-47 Thunderbolt
F6F-5 Hellcat
Corsair
Enterprise // I wonder if Star Trek paid royalties to use the name?
B-2
Cobra
F14 Tomcat

[batistadk]

There is always a solution, Oktoberfest, but, in this paticular case, it isn't in our hands.

Ok, there is an agreement made between 1c/Ubisoft and NG Corp. I think it was good, because no one wanted to hurt each other that time (PF release, probably). Taking in account how NG Corp. is jealous about 'their' stuff (not the american people stuff too), that agreement was the only way Ubisoft could release the game with planes that Oleg was looking for, with no problems related to NG copyright issues.

But, and now I'm talking just on my opinon, NG Corp. got angry at some point, and started to difficult things. I don't have any idea why it happened, or if it really happened.

Well, about my solution? I little fantasy of my part, but here we go. Someone of the original development team, would be better Oleg himself, schedule a meeting with some big guy inside NG Corp. Then, could find a nice solution to this issue, that could make both sides happy (or at least resigned). If Oleg could show how important this sim is for a lot of people around the world, and the force of the community, that, even 10 years from the release, continues growing, I think someone inside NG Corp. could see the question with our eyes, at some moment.

It's real clear to me, that if I could pilot a P-61 in IL-2 , I probably woulnd't sell it, or make any money with this fact. But, to things happen, all the community would need to agree. To me, it would be like no more pay add-ons, or charged patches, whatever. It already happen, but would must be discussed in a general way throughout the whole community. And of course, give NG Corp. a guarantee that everybody would respect the terms.

Beautiful, for sure, but almost impossible. I could speak with NG Corp. CEO personally , but it's the kind of thing will never happen. Oleg could do it, but he is solving problems with CloD, with his mind in another project. Everybody knows his love for this sim, and it's a dream that come true for him (as it is for all of us too), but we can't ask too much things from him. Then, looks like we we'll take the hard and longest way to solve this problem.

What I can say is: count on me. But, unfortunately, I'm not the kind of guy that can make many things too solve a question. About the letters, good idea, but I'm not north-american at all (just a brazilian bartender living in Guarujá), then, it's up to you guys, to get your papers and pens.

But, I think the first step, IMO, would creat a EXCLUSIVE thread to take this subject ahead, and of course get the attention of Oleg, Ilya, and other important people around IL-2. If we don't have their approval, we can't go further, neither put their names or 1c/Ubisoft labels, in a international rebelion.

It can start right here, just depends on us.

batistadk

[DD_crash]

Read this thread from SIM HQ http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3170621
Also this thread http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3157494
Mr 426cid said on this thread that "maybe they asked" http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ml#Post3164955 Rising Sun is still going so maybe there is hope.

[batistadk]

Interesting, but not so much, at the same time...

My discussion about NG Corp., and the right to use names, and stuff appearence built by them during WWII, is exclusively on IL-2 Sturmovik. There are some personal motives on this, but others that involves all of us.

First of all, a SoW PTO (or whatever the name used on it), will take a long time till release, and we can take CloD as example. The sim was in development for at least for 6 or 7 years, what is a long time, and even when released, showed a lot of development problems. It isn't a criticism about Oleg or the development team. To me, they could take 10 years more, and I will wait (anyway, they already give us the best WWII simulator of all times, it's not difficult to wait at all). We can put some time until a PTO themed pack in SoW appear.

This fact gives IL-2 a huge advantage. IL-2 is an extremely tested sim already, and there are just minimal flaws to be corrected. If NG Corp. authorization come up today, by tomorrow we already could expect releases of NG Corp. related stuff.

Another advantage is Team Daidalos. They are, IMHO, the best development, non-profitable team related with games. In a really short time, I believe they could start adding NG Corp. stuff to the IL-2, without bothering Oleg, that is working in CloD project.

Finally, and that's is my case, a new PTO sim, even if released today, wouldn't run on my computer at all. I was very excited about CloD release, but when I read the first PC requirements, I got very sad. And, after the release, I saw people with top notch PC complaining about fps and other stuff, I couldn't believe. I don't have money to change my computer right now, and I think thats the case of some people out there too. But the fact is: I already have a awesome sim installed in my computer, with an unchallenged content, that any sim would take some years to be equal; this sim has a good graphic content, and even this way don't abuse from older computers (thats is my case); the already existing content is, at least, huge, considering about planes, maps, ground objects, effects, etc.

Then, my fight is to make possible NG Corp. 'copyrights' appear in IL-2, first, and of course, try to keep a good relation with this company, thinking about future releases. The threads DD_crash linked us is a kind of mind blower, I know. But I still have hope that we can make IL-2 even bigger, adding NG Corp. related stuff.

batistadk

[Asheshouse]

Info from US Patent Office http://www.uspto.gov/

At the moment NG have not registered trademarks for:

Yorktown
Hornet
CV5
CV6
CV8

They have trademarked the name Enterprise, specifically for use in toys, not video games.

For works produced between January 1, 1923 and March 1, 1989, copyright notice is required.
The drawings of USS Yorktown, dated 1939, which are in the Public Domain are not copyrighted.

These are what are called "matters of fact" Verhängnis

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

I still have Yorktown model, built for PF and not included in the game because of NG,

[batistadk]

Thanks Asheshouse!

These are good news.

batistadk

[csThor]

But unfortunately irrelevant. As SaQSon said there is a contract between NG and Ubisoft/1C which includes said things. Which means we can wriggle and squirm as much as we like - NG-related stuff won't be touched by DT.

[Oktoberfest]

The best would just be to have a look at said contract. I work on international contracts and I have experts in copyright and international regulation in my company I could ask to have a look about that contract too.

Dunno if TD could get an example of that contract. After all, it's not top secret, isn't it ?

[csThor]

Last I heard Ubi considers it secret (or whatever passes for that in the corporate world).