HYLFIRE: New huge mod for WoTN - Ice'n Fire

[Xev]

I do not think that higher leadership for lvl5 units will be the correct way to avoid overpowered lvl5 strategies. If i had only 1 single green dragon instead of 25 of them, then it's the same easy way to win except phantom copying. The key to win with dragons or archdemons is their initiative and their speed. They flee away from enemy because they start each round and fly from one corner to the other.
Damage maker are not the lvl5 units but summoned units and damage spells.
Give them initiative 3 or speed 3 (not both together) and they are useful but not overpowered.
Archdemons has this volcano ability. As a mage my main damage in 1st half of the game came from rage skills. Until turn 20 you have full rage all the time with volcano skill from the archdemons. I splitted the demons so that i got more volcanos from each single demons. This volcano skill must be lowered (best no rage), archdemons are good enough without this skill.
On starting isle all combats could be won with a single chaos dragon. More: you could only win it no loss if you avoid other units. With initiative 6 speed 6 they were good, but full regeneration each turn make them overpowered.
Sure: you are right - if anyone wants to cheat he can load/save game until it fits. There's no recipt against this cheating. If a player can live with it, okay.

[raknefne]

Some very good ideas. But in the original game, dragons had lots of speed and initiative too... I can see some lvl5 like Troll, Ogre, Orc Chieftain walk with only 2 in speed and have little initiative too. Could raise either speed or initiative on them too - just a little.

Orig. game/Vanilla:
Blackdragon: 8 speed, 6 ini
arcdemon: 9 speed, 8 ini
etc.

You mentioned, it was easier to play the mod than Vanilla, so I guess the damage from Archmages has to be put down a bit:
I had a look at the code for Archdemons, I can lower the damage of the vulcanos and make the reload bigger, not so sure if I can controle how much rage it will give. Normally less damage=less rage unless you have a high level of the ANGER SKILL. I can also see that the average damage is the same in Vanilla and Hylfire pr. Archdemon, but the Leadership is much much lower in Hylfire! So yes, when that is lowered it is more balanced. Was it still an overpow unit in Vanilla?

I can imagine this concept in Bonfire for level 5's:
SLOW (troll, ogre etc): 2 speed, 5-6 Initiative
FLIGHTS (dragons, archdemon): 7-9 speed, 3-4 ini with variations ofc

[Xev]

Your concept for lvl5 is great!
Reduced ini but full speed make dragons useful but not too powerful.
In Vanilla green dragons were ok (5 ini, 6 speed). Red/Black/Archdemons were overpowered too.
No unit should have BOTH ini and speed such high. 5/6 or 4/7 or 3/9 are good combinations.
Archdemons: I got 2 of them very early - I like to get randomized creatures from all races, that's really fun! Problem is not the damage of them. It's high anger in combination with volcano skill. Even if volcano gives only 1 dmg, it will generate rage by hit.

Hylfire was easier for me than Vanilla because
- green dragons (after some exp) had 11 ini and 8 speed. Gives a lot of mana - phantom copies generate endless mana. Raged berserkers were the only unit with higher ini.
- max mana with fauns upgrade
- max rage in Hylfire was high when playing a mage class like vanilla playing with might class
- could buy 2 archdemons from shop on one of the 1st isles. Splitting them in 2 stacks and high anger (i put all red only there) = max rage (as a mage!!!)

There is one more overpowered thing: Lynch Mob spell.
It summons very high leadership (double of hero leadership) at low mana costs and generates very strong farmers who will summon plants ... and the plants summon next plants. If lvl5 units were not available then this is the next easy way to succeed.
Reducing leadership or switch farmer to pirate units or raise mana costs should be better.

Please don't take me as only reference. Other players prefer easier playing. The main goal should be to have fun with the mod.
If overpowering is reduced then some underpowering should be raised. Perhaps it's useful to discuss which units/spells are much too weak? i.e. there is a spell which summons uncontrollable lizard units with great leadership. Looks nice on 1st view but these lizard units are really weak and are dying fast.

thx for doing a great job!!!

[raknefne]

While my other mod, Trent, is being tested, I'm playing Terroin's old mod, Hylfire again (I mostly helped by testing and adding new items). I'm writing down all things that need a little touch. Some balance issues. I know there were complaints about the vanilla was toooo long a game. Some maps that could be cancelled?

Changes in patch 1.2:

- a little easier early on. Also more free units to the east.
- Vestlig: chance of getting free lvl5 from a shop is removed.
- balance level 5 units more as Xev suggested.
- balance skills like Anger, Creation. Tactic is only 2-4-6 runes now (change the position of the altars)
- spells: Lynch Mob summon pirates instead of peasants, cost more mana to cast.
- Troop talk: will be looked over. The 10% mana or so the faun gives on mana max will be changed. Inkvisitor gives 1 Magic rune instead of transforming into runemage from lvl10. Cave spider gives 4 crystal.
- in general we have only changed creatures until level 25 or so. Generally the amount of undead is reduced until that level, from that on, it is as vanilla. We never testet the mod or vanilla to the end, was too long
for us. I have only heard of Xev who played it until the end. It might look too difficult with the enemy army increase on impossible and only 5% gold after fight, but you get help in other ways - like the creature-companion-like that is like a 6th stack of creature. Also you get gold from Acrimaldo after a fight or from interests in the bank (guild).

A lot of these changes is already changed in Bonfire 1.1, but not in Hylfire.

[raknefne]

A new patch 1.2 can be downloaded at

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=229790

In general Hylfire was designed for short games, a few nights, until level 25-30 max. But you can play until the finish if you wish, but we haven't reduced the amount of undead from Greenwort. Or changed anything from there. Also you won't get more skills after leveling up after level 30 or so, just stats like mana/rage/int/def/att/gold.

Some games will be easier if you are lucky with the skills you get after leveling up (you only have 1-2 skills open at start!). Some more difficult.

KNOWN BUGS:
In general we have reduced crashes compared to vanilla however we have seen crashes when entering battle, you can reload and take a few items/Creatires off and put them on again, then the randomization is different (I guess it is a bug with the auto summoning the Warrior and Paladin have, it is probably when they find the same place as the companion - only Terroin can fix it, and he is not playing KB at the moment... sad...)

[abdoi]

raknefne, I have a question. What files have you moded to change the enemy types instead of being mostly undead?

[raknefne]

Originally Posted by abdoi

raknefne, I have a question. What files have you moded to change the enemy types instead of being mostly undead?

The enemy has been changed in the editor. We had to change every army to a new army, so it is a huge job. We only changed until Greenwort.

[Sirlancelot]

Originally Posted by raknefne

The enemy has been changed in the editor. We had to change every army to a new army, so it is a huge job. We only changed until Greenwort.

But does the game keeps balanced until the end?

Today I finished Crossworlds and I'm super excited to try another entry of the series. However, I find the WOTN enemies lack of diversity a big nuisance. And I don't want to get discouraged.

So, some quick questions:

- Is it compatible with Ice and Cold official DLC?
- Is it compatible with the spanish translation of both Warriors of the North and Ice and Cold?
- Have you also improved the AI or the like or just focus on making the game more varied?

What mod recommends, this one or Bonfire? What's the difference between them?

Thanks!

[raknefne]

But does the game keeps balanced until the end? Don't know, probably not. A player Xev, played it on impossible to the end. He ment it was easier than vanilla. But since his play I have changed a few skills. The intention of the Hylfire mod was actually for shorter games (never a finish of the game since it is sooolong). We have only modded until Greenwort. There are so many possibilities and chances for unbalances later. For instance we have 15 heroes to choose between at start, 5 in each hero class. You also get a 6th stack of creature to fight by your side, like the creature in RedSand or WoG in Heroes3. But it only develops according to the hero's level.

Is it compatible with Ice and Cold official DLC? Yes, only for Ice/Cold expansion.

Is it compatible with the spanish translation: No, only the english.

Have you also improved the AI or the like or just focus on making the game more varied? No AI improvements, except more versatile enemy compinations instead of just undead armies, but only until Greenwort. It is more a mod with more versatileness. But Hylfire is a lot harder to start with, you start with just a little mana/rage, but for instance the Witch Hunter hero (1 hero out of 15) is a mage that start with Teleport and a new spell Lynchmob. For instance you only have 1-2 skills to develop at first, then after each level up you get a choice of random skills like Order Magic, Anger, Diversion (this is just an example).

What mod recommends, this one or Bonfire? What's the difference between them? Hylfire uses same maps as vanilla with just a few changes early. Bonfire has even more randomness, completely new maps, etc. Bonfire is IMO the best. All the versatileness from Hylfire is developed further in Bonfire. In Bonfire, in general Terroin did the modding, I did the mapmaking.

[raknefne]

Just made an update of Hylfire, in general easier to start with. These are the main changes:


HYLFIRE Version 1.21

1. Guild: You can only be robbed from your savings in the guild when you have at least 50.000, a little annoying before IMO; you could be robbed just by having 5.000 and loose the 5.000.

2. Robbery of the gold you carry: Only possible from when you have 50-60.000 gold now. Still takes 10% of what you have saved.

3. Vestlig: One of the creatures that protects 1 of 4 locations for the first Valkyrie could be owerpowered with level 5 units (small chance, but too difficult). Lowered to normal.

4. Nordlig: Some early fights made easier. A few guards have a possible of drop low level items or other stuff.

5. Crashes can still occur at the start of a fight. Try rearrange items (take off/on) and load again. The reason is probably the location of the companion on the battlefield. We can’t fix it.

6. Spell Plague a little better (duration 2-3-4, was 2-2-2 and now cheaper to learn).

7. Spell Lightning only 20 Mana at level 3 and cheaper to learn.

8. Start choice for race at Tormund is more random how many you can choose from (was 7 races before).

9. Some armies easier now.

10. Gold income after battle a little higher on Impossible and Hard.