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#131
10-27-2012, 12:53 PM
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i think you are on the right track there, but we need to first differentiate what all the different people mean by "having trouble seeing/tracking" aircraft, and from peoples comments in this thread we have a few different issues involved 1) how well people can see distant aircraft dots or the smallest CoD LoD models in the far distance (against open sky or terrain background): lcd display technology is a factor there (TN monitors doing significantly better), but the small dots and smallest LoD models are NOT visible enough against terrain background for most players (due to the flat 2D nature of current monitor displays, it all blends together to much) 2) how well people can see medium distance LoD models: this is i believe the OP's main topic, and he suggests the LoD models need some form of visual enhancement. similar issues as point 1, TN screens have an advantage but their visibility is generally under-modeled compared to visibility in real life from a real aircraft 3) some people stating aircraft in the medium distance can suddenly become invisible (either a LoD model programing error for some planes, or other issue) for any of these visibility issues, to compare apples with apples it is critical players standardize as much as possible what we are looking at, and how it is displayed: - monitors need to be set to the correct FoV for their monitor size and distance they sit from it, only then will we know how good/bad CoD is recreating the distant aircraft visibility - monitors should be set to their native resolutions, - have object/model detail set to high if possible (but it is well possible that lower detail settings for buildings and aircraft makes them easier to spot/track ?) for those who havnt considered how to find their "correct FoV" setting (which in the il2 series could then be bound to the "normal" view key (allowing them to see all in-game objects in their correct 1:1 sizes, and hence giving in theory correct visibility for distant objects), with an additional "wide view" (90) that could be briefly used for increasing SA during a dogfight for ex (but shrinks all in-game objects significantly, making them much harder to spot), and a "zoomed view" (35) which is like strapping on a set of binoculars (with tunnel vision) and hence significantly magnifies everything you look at how to find what is your own personal "normal FoV" for il2/CoD your "normal" il2 CoD FoV = {arctan [ (horz size monitor/2) / monitor distance ] } x2 for ex, for my 27' screen (58 cm wide), which during il2 gaming i have from my eyes at a distance of 60 cm (note, dont mix metric and imperial, mind your decimal places, and make sure you use how wide your monitor display area is not the diagonal measurement !), this would mean for me: {arctan [ (0.58 / 2) / 0.60 ] } x2 {arctan [ 0.29 / 0.60 ] } x2 {arctan [ 0.4833 ] } x2 { 25.796 } x 2 = 51.592 so for me, with my monitor size and sitting at that viewing distance, my "normal FoV" in il2/CoD should be set at 50. and only then will i, or should i, be able to see objects in their correct sizes for the distance they are from me. if I however use a wider then normal FoV (for ex the default "normal" right now in CoD is 70 FoV), then the distant objects will shrink significantly, and my visibility of them will significantly reduce (because now i am seeing LoD model 8 for ex instead of LoD model 5 which is significantly larger) and my observation, and most il2 series users, was that in the il2 series visibility of these distant aircraft LoD models (against terrain background) was about 1/2 to 1/3 of what it should be in real life, eg instead of for ex overflying fields and roads at 1200 meters and spotting individual tanks or trucks (or parked single engine aircraft at an airfield), you needed to be at 300 meters in this game ! in effect in the il2 series we were flying around in a "mini SA bubble", which didnt SIMULATE a real ww2 pilot experience from my experience so far in CoD, we are again dealing with similar visibility issues, and as the OP suggested, we need to find some way to get this across to luthier and then get him to adjust the distant LoD model visibility so it makes up for the problem that the gfx engine might well model the distant object correctly in size, but it doesnt stand out as well as a similar object would in real life (on a pc display with current technology the 2D Lod model blends in to much with the flat 2D landscape being displayed note: currently in CoD as far as i know we can only set our FoV to the 3 preset values they included, and despite numerous requests during the beta patches to provide us with the 5 degree incremental settings we had in il-1946 (where you could set it at steps of 5 degrees from 35 to 90), we are still stuck with this. (note, for most people with mid size monitors they can use the 70 setting and sit closer to their monitors to correct for the excessively high FoV. using the 35 FoV setting is not a valid option however since it works like using a fair of binoculars in the game, and provides significant magnification and cant be used as a "normal" comparison). one forum member (ataros) suggested that the kegetis mod tool allows you to set a specific FoV but i havnt tried it yet (and might not be compatible online ?) (see http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthr...=multi+monitor ). several people tried to edit the CoD files to alter the FoV setting directly, but no luck so far. setting the "correct FoV" is however critical to determine how good/bad visibility is currently in CoD. because with most people flying around with incorrect FoV settings, we cant be trying to compensate with a distorted visibility setup, we need to compare what is a "normal" setting in the sim, and then see how this compares to similar real life situations.
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President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children Last edited by zapatista; 10-27-2012 at 01:07 PM. 
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#132
10-27-2012, 01:07 PM
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why dont you try the same observation but with your monitor set to the correct FoV ? (without using the "meshshowlod" hack) i strongly suspect that "gap" does not exist (but if it does exist, it obviously would be a coding error or absence of the smallest LoD models for ex)
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President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children
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#133
10-28-2012, 05:27 AM
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What you're missing though, is... when you change the FoV from the "default" setting, you are introducing the distortion you allayed to in your post above your last.
and crikey.. you're sitting 2 foot (60cm) off your screen??
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#134
10-29-2012, 12:07 PM
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it is the exact opposite of what you are saying. if i would be using the 70 FoV as "normal default"(with my eyes 60 cm from my 27' screen as i stated earlier), all ingame objects size shrink around 30% for me, making them much harder to spot, track or identify, THAT is a distortion ! if in a flight simulator the purpose is presumably to see all in-game objects in their correct 1:1 sizes compared to what you would see in real life (ie the same as when looking out of a cockpit), in which case you then need to determine what this "normal" view is for your own monitor personal setup first (size monitor, and the distance you have you're eyes from it. right now the "normal view" (by default 70 FoV right now in CoD), is only "normal" if you have a 30' screen and sit exactly 54.356 centimeter (21.4 inch ) from it. if that same person then briefly uses the zoomed 35 FoV to scan a distant airfield or road, all in-game objects are magnified by 2x (hence much easier to see), but it does so at the cost of introducing tunnel vision. having snap views setup that are more zoomed (35 FoV) or artificially increase peripheral vision (eg the 90 FoV) are useful to briefly use to overcome some of the limitations of sitting behind a monitor in your living room rather then being in a real aircraft, but both induce significant size and object-visibility distortions just calculate it for your own setup, and see what should be your "normal FoV" for your current setup. the purpose of raising this in this thread is because only if using a correct "normal" FoV can we determine if in-game "distant object" visibility is roughly correct (compared to similar real life situations), AND if the "invisible zone" (disappearing aircraft) some players complain of is a real problem or some less serious artifact introduced by not using the right FoV.
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President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children
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#135
10-29-2012, 12:29 PM
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109 The view that I prefer is to have all of my gauges in view. Is it possible for me to lock that as my normal view?...maybe a config edit?
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#136
10-29-2012, 12:48 PM
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you have several options to keep your instruments in view in the il2 series 1) if you use your "wide" (90 FoV) to achieve that, you have the major problem that everything in the "game world" has shrunk in size (including your cockpit instruments) and distant aircraft and ground objects will be much harder to spot 2) you could tilt your widescreen monitor to 90 degrees, making it taller then wide  dont laugh, some people actually prefer that view. they have all instruments in view, and their mirror, and have a good visibility of the sky up in front of them. personally i find it disorienting, but it could work if you have 3 monitors setup side by side.3) you could use a small 2e display to just have a small cluster of the most important instruments displayed, this was possible with a small addon program in the il2 series. eg you could use a tablet pc or similar 7' or 9' screen for that purpose. this is my preferred option, but untill the most recent patch still wasnt possible in CoD. several people requested this feature, but no idea if the last official patch made any changes to enable this (sadly i doubt they included it) 4) you could setup your correct" normal FoV" for your setup (calculated by above method). and use a track-IR to follow your head movement, small brief downward glances to the instruments become fairly intuitive after a while, and not to distracting. this is probably the best current option for most of us. i think those are the main options i can see for now, other might have more suggestions my personal ambition for the future is to add 2 smaller 20' monitors on either side of my 27', the amount of pixels they use is roughly similar to adding one extra widescreen (instead of 2, so easier on the GPU and CPU), and the vertical resolution and pixel count is the same as my monitor (1200) so it blends in fairly well. multi monitor setups in CoD are still not perfectly integrated, so still looking at cost effective options myself it would be great to have a small tablet pc with a few instruments displayed, its resolution is relatively low so no major drain on the pc as a 2e display, and the gaming advantage is significant (compared to the limitations of 1 large screen with no instruments in view during dog-fighting for ex) so with your current setup, what would be your personal "normal FoV" ? i think you'd be amazed at how low the FoV needs to be (and most people dont use that because it gives them a very narrow visual field). it will give you some idea as to how much distant objects and planes shrink in size when you set ti to 70 or 90, and hence why now suddenly they are so much harder to spot for most
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President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children Last edited by zapatista; 10-29-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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#137
10-29-2012, 12:52 PM
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several people tried to edit the CoD files to alter the FoV setting directly, but no luck so far. being able to set specific FoV's at 5 degree steps (as was possible in the il2 series) is afaik not currently possible in CoD, it was a feature requested several times by many people, but i dont think it was included in the final patch. knowing what your personal "normal" FoV should be in CoD is however important to determine the amount of distortion in object sizes you are creating as a result of using the "wrong FoV" (and for the purpose of this thread to determine game errors).
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President Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953: Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone, it is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children Last edited by zapatista; 10-29-2012 at 12:55 PM.
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#138
10-29-2012, 01:01 PM
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Thanks zapatista! I will experiment with your advice
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#140
10-30-2012, 06:18 AM
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