#121
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So I would start with 1 x Fire rain instead of Plague and 2x Ancient Vamps as starting troops and I think that should provide enough challenge! Last edited by travelingoz; 09-01-2014 at 05:22 PM. |
#122
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As soon as I am done with this play-through, I will also give a thought about the vampire
But for now: THAT MORALE!!! Thanks to it, I can mow down enemy stacks easily. Just get those knights nice and fully surrounded with teleport, execute the whirling attack, have them eat tons of damage, Turn back time at the end of the next turn, and then lol.
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#123
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Yeah, it's because of that 88k item, isn't it? We are playing similarly, DG, like you said before. I have Dark Paladins, Dark Knights and Wizards, all with insane morale, and I just bought a Turn Back Time scroll for use with the Knights. My fourth and fifth units are currently Archdemons and Executioners. For the Archdemon you need to use level 3 Healing (after doing the relevant quest to make it 'dark') and the others are all there to slaughter big stacks. And then with Phantom if I lose too many for one resurrection, there's the old Paladin + Phantom routine.
You are way ahead of me now - I'm level 39, just having cleared Sandy Island except for the final bosses and Tristem, same deal there. |
#124
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My problem is that even though I am over 50, I can't use dark healing - apart from the scroll I have in my book, I can find no other. Maybe it wouldn't have been a bad idea to script at least 3 of each in the game... Or if they did, I haven't found the others. So no Archdemons for me.
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#125
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By the way, I performed a little experiment with the Evil Book. Honestly, it is not much help as level 1, but if you could get it to level 2, then it may be helpful later. The only problem is that you need to get your Chaos skill to level 2 and I'm always 1 Might rune short at Daert level 4. So you'd have to get to level 5 before you could get any of your Chaos spells to level 2, at least from my playthroughs so far. I did an experiment where I gave Daert all the spells in the spellbook via the "magicbook" cheat. My army was just 2 Vampires and 2 Ghosts and I was attacking the 2nd largest spider stack in the Catacombs. The only spell that was remotely useful was Phoenix. The only problem with Phoenix is that why would Daert start with it, either as a scroll or spell? Perhaps the reason is that a Phoenix deals with reviving the dead and maybe he had one since he wanted to do some research with it. I think we should try to avoid Order spells unless they are specifically dark. I've also devised a point system for the starting spells of all the heroes (1 point for each spell level):
Another problem is his starting low Mana. it should be up to 27 by the time you hit the Catacombs. When I had all the spells, I looked through them to see which ones had really low Mana costs at level 1 so that you'd be able to cast some with your low starting Mana. Here is a list of all spells that are 5 Mana or less (with some analysis towards their utility for an early Mage) the format is Spell Name (Mana/Spell Level) and bold spells are what Daert starts with:
Of the Distortion spells, I could see Stone Skin being very helpful as well as Calm of Rage (but starting with Calm of Rage would seem a little strange maybe). Pygmy would also be really good, but its similarity to Plague kind of makes it seem strange for Daert to have it instead of Plague at the start of the game. It is also 4 points. Of the Chaos spells, I really think Daert has to start with Poison Skull since it is essentially an Undead spell. I think Frost Grasp (due to its cold damage) is also well suited as an Undead spell in a way (it's almost like a grasp of death) and no units have immunity to Cold Damage through Whitehill. I think Kamikaze would be very fun coupled with a Necromancer or two in Daert's starting army and seems to go really well with a Necromancer. I still think Plague should be swapped with Evil Book as that is a perfect Undead spell. So here's my starting spell recommendation based on the point system I devised (let's use 12 points with 5 points of starting spells and 7 for scrolls):
Next we have the problem of Daert's starting army. It is very paltry (you can only get max Decaying Zombies and Skeletons through to the Shelter since you can buy extra from the Zombie Miller). Since you can buy either, I don't think it makes sense to start with either Decaying Zombies or Skeletons - go buy them if you think they may be useful. To synergize with the spells I selected, I think you should start with 1 Black Knight (since you can use Stone Skin on them) and I think 1 Cursed Ghost might be a neat starting troop because of their Ghost Cry (and you can Stone Skin them for 70% Physical Resistance). Both could use Evlins to heal their damage. Lastly, in order for us to be able to get any use out of Kamikaze, we need to have a Necromancer so that we can use their Raise Dead skill and then Kamikaze some troops. That uses up the 3 starting slots, although we could use more troops, traditionally, you only start with 3 starting troops. Here's what I think we can do with the friendly troops in the castle: change the Skeleton Warriors so that you get 5 Vampires and change the Vampires to Cursed Ghosts. This would give you plenty of Vampires through to the Shelter and allow you to add Cursed Ghosts to your stacks as you level up. This would allow you to use their Ghost Cry and their life steal should be sufficiently high to help them recoup losses. That would give him some extra level 3 troops hopefully enough for the Shelter and synergize well with spells / scrolls in his starting spellbook. You then get another scroll from Clarissa and possibly more scrolls before the Shelter. Your starting troop makeup would look like this:
Not sure if it will work in practice, but it looks good on paper, at least! /C\/C\ Last edited by MattCaspermeyer; 09-13-2014 at 12:29 AM. Reason: Fixed error in Blur (+15% -> -15%) |
#126
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By the way, I did try the following with Vampire:
Spells / Scrolls as listed above, and I chose Weakness over Teleport. Hero's starting army:
I had no problems with any of the stacks in the Catacombs except the big one. I was able to go to Dragandor, kill the stack in front of the gate, then get level 4 to get Evil Book to level 2 with level 2 Chaos in the skill tree. I was then able to take the big Spider stack down. This was actually harder than the Dwarven and Elven stacks in the Shelter. The only Shelter fight that gave me trouble was the Human stack, but it only took a couple of tries to no loss them. I finally got enough Might Runes to get Chaos Level 2 when I was Level 4. This is key in this setup. If you don't get enough Might Runes then I don't think you'll be able to beat the big Spider stack with two Level 1 Evil Books, but maybe. I may try to continue, but I think I'm going to restart with what I mentioned in the previous post since this starting setup was a touch too powerful, I think. I couldn't use the second Necromancer until I get to the Shelter anyway since I didn't have enough Leadership, and so I think it will be better to try the Cursed Ghosts and see what they can do. This might also allow me to defeat that stack without getting Level 2 Evil Book if the Runes don't fall my way. I was actually able to use Kamikaze Level 2 with a raised spider stack to great effect on the big Spider stack and it was major fun! So I really like this spell setup as it allows Daert to be an actual Mage at the beginning of the game. I pretty much used at least each spell once through my current play. Evil Book was very critical with this build, and Stone Skin was very helpful with my 1 Cursed Ghost / Black Knight stacks. Frost Grasp came in handy against the Fire Spiders, Poison Skull against the Cave Spiders, and as I mentioned above, Kamikaze worked really well! I used Weakness once or twice to minimize damage from Cave Spiders. In this game I got (for the first time) spells from the Hidden Cache: two Time Shift scrolls and then from the Ore Cart in Dragandor I got two Chaos Gifts scrolls. I don't have enough Crystals, though, to learn Chaos Gifts, but that spell is great to get early. ***EDIT*** Okay, I went ahead and no lossed through the first Whitehill battle. So that setup is too easy for Daert. Will experiment some more... /C\/C\ Last edited by MattCaspermeyer; 09-02-2014 at 10:20 AM. Reason: Updated with additional info |
#127
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Awesome post. We can pick like 3 best options, do 3 edited saves, and the people who like the idea can try them. We can name Daert somehow for each of the 3 saves and everyone can tell where did he feel the most challenge and the most satisfaction out of it - and if they managed to do the shelter fights. I think this will be a good base for comparison Besides, I think all the shelter fights must be compared to the difficulty Neoline has with them. If it feels roughly the same, then we have hit the spot.
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#128
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This combination works great!
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This combination gives a lot of different possibilities for Daert. I don't think it is overpowered as it provides a good challenge through the Shelter and onto Whitehill and allows him to be played as an actual Mage! With this group of units, you should be able to no loss through Whitehill. Honestly, due to the fact that you now have to defeat only one of the Whitehill stacks, the toughest part of the game is now through the Shelter fights. Since you have 1 Rage Potion, all you have to do is drink it and use Jealously and the easiest Whitehill stack is no problem. Before, with doing all 3, you had to save that potion for at least the second stack meaning you had to do at least one battle with no rage accumulation. Which was a lot harder. I can post the modded files in the future if people are interested, but I'm going to next look at the Orc and figure out what his issues are and see what we can do there. /C\/C\ |
#129
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Good stuff, Matt. I'd be interested at having a crack at the Vampire no-loss challenge with this build.
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#130
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Gentlemen, hold your horses!
I believe it is possible to kill elven Shelter guardian no loss, with original settings and army that is, but everything has to work like a clock. You will need a) specific strategy for current battlefield , b) flawless running around c) no luck during battle actually, everything makes sense and no lost turns in round1 via Diversion are needed d) unfortunately tons and tons of tests until you get specific conditions before and during battle. Now I have for you 2 screenshots. One at the round 1 so you can see the stacks, trap etc. and two is at round 9, when battle becomes trivial. More on that later. - using codes i tried good few times a journey from beginning of the game to just before Shelter battles. You always end up either end of level 4 or early level 5, assuming skipping one big spider stack in catacombes.. It is interesting to note though that there is some variability in total gained experience from early battles ( meaning leadership of stacks in catacombs where most of battles take place). I tried skipping spider stack near dwarven castle and not using Clot of darkness at all, and still got to level 5 without dwarven battle on one occasion. Or I played using the Clot and fighting this stack and ended up level 4 only. It seems to me, and people confirm as well, that dwarven battle is mostly just mouse clicking exercise, you can always make it to level 5, so that is not a concern here. - I tried all sorts of skill combinations at level 5. The best combination of skills looks to be Concentration 2, Meditation 1, Diversion 1, Distorsion 1. It gives whooping 33 starting mana, so although it is only level1 Poison skull, you will be casting it for quite a few rounds, occasionally squeezing in slow spell if needed. On the side note - I never played any of the starting battles leading to Shelter with Vampire. Although more challenging than with demoness, they can be all done apart from big spider stack. Correct me if I am wrong. - you play with one stack of 2 vampires only. Other units would die miserably -it is absolutely imperative to start the battle with vampires standing not in the middle , but only on the left spot in order to attract the werevolves from the right side to chase you through the left side - see screenshot 1. -the first elven shot, which is critical, does almost 10dmg per elf. So once the starting amount of elves is 8+, one vampire will die. 6-7 is fine. -battle consists of three phases. Phase 1. Dealing with shooters, which has to be done first. You melee attack is weak, survivability is low as bat, so nuking shooters with spells (and trap) is primary concern. Phase 2. Dealing with Fairies. They have the same speed as werewolves, but can cross the middle "non-hex" part of battlefield and are therefore much more dangerous. Phase 3. Dealing with werewolves at the end. Now Phases 1 +2 are not that difficult, if the werewolves in Phase 3 did not have regeneration ability both in elf and wolf shape. You just cannot do with 2 vampires 55dmg in one round. Hence the necessity of magic spring spell and bringing down werewolves with poison skulls. Now I really did not want to go with Distorsion 1 route, much rather Chaos 2 for bringing down stack down quicker, but it just does not do enough damage by the time you run out of mana. I even considered getting trapper medal for 2 traps before shelter, it is still not strong enough. You must have distorsion 1. -important note: everything you do on battlefield, affects the damage of poison skull you are about to cast . Keep that in mind, because the spell damage can vary greatly. Sometimes moving 1 hex forward or left makes a massive difference. Believe that I calculated various branches of moves and corresponding spell damages up to round 5. -now i can only describe what I have done in my battle from screenshot 1 in beginning of battle till round 9, which is screenshot 2. Start with vampire to the left as described, let the elves shoot, you will heal damage anyway. no need for diversion to incapacitate anyone, but observe the location of trap. Poison skull on elves, 1-2 down. vampires stay in its form, 1 step forward, no sidestepping yet. Round 2, elves shoot, you heal, 3 stacks will almost reach you, transform vampires, cast poison on elves again, and move 3-4 hexes to the left. And here it comes - single most important point in this battle = Fauns, you are still far away from them to receive full damage from their ranged attack. They have speed 4, so they move forward 3 squares and are about to shoot, but there is your trap. It does not end here for battle to be easily won. You have to leave standing ideally one, at most two 2 fauns standing. The trap can kill anything between 10-12 of them I think. The reason for leaving one alive is twofold = it will get in other units way, and secondly it will be used for mana spring triggers later on. Also, as you noticed you just saved yourself 2-3 spellcasts of poison skull right there. Do not underestimate the importance of 1 faun. Since you poison skull is weak you will have to run around the battlefield for about 9 rounds before pretty much only werewolves are left. First 4 rounds = 3-4 poison skulls on elves, 5-9 rounds poison skulls on fairies. If you get cornered, use occasional slow. Screenshot 2 shows the beginning of Phase 3. Just move through the middle, use mana spring and bit by bit destroy werewolves. Unfortunately, I do not have final victory screenshot, since I did not have mana spring, was just testing my theory, but i believe it is rather elementary at this point. All you have to avoid is werewolves coming from both sides. So you are going to need this : 1) mana spring scroll from Clarissa 2) only 6-7 elves in your Shelter Battle 3) position of placed trap close to Fauns as you can see in my screenshots or similar, you know what I mean (this is probably the hardest to achieve) 4) follow the above |
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